My father has been living with us for nearly 2 years now. Originally it was because he was having a tough time finding work, but as trips to the hospital have proven, he's got some form of dementia that hasn't been explicitly diagnosed yet. He's only 58 so it's quite a surprise. He's not wandering yet, and seems to have enough long term memory not to get lost, but his short term is almost nonexistent anymore, and he's frequently delusional.

Anyhow, some recent events made us decide to get the ball rolling on having him put in to a home. I discussed it with him a couple weeks ago, which of course wasn't very easy, but he at least realizes it's something that might have to happen someday, "Just not now", as he says.

While we're waiting for the financial aid stuff to work out, we've made an appointment at a local adult day care place to bring him to next Monday, just to check it out.

Have you all had any difficulties in getting the person under your care to agree? If my dad had his way, he'd just stay at home and of course he doesn't think he needs any help. It's my house so of course I call the shots, and don't want him to be a danger to himself, our house, or selves.

Have you had success in convincing the person you care for that this is a good thing and get them to buy in to it more, so it's not just completely against their will?

Thanks! I'm so new to this, and it's such a heavy burden and strain.

1st off WELCOME.

I am a newbie too and really have no advise but I am really interested to see what the others say as I know this will be a problem for us too. My Grandmother currently lives alone and we are talking about moving her in with us. We went and checked out some sites too before deciding on our home. I think if we moved her straight from her house she would accept it. Just write it off as we have young children and she wouldn't want to be a burden. But once she is here, how do I get her out when the time comes? It won't be as easy I think!! SO I will just ride on your post and see what they say.................

Check out the thread I started, titled Please share with me.

Same question, with responses.

Welcome,
Marci

quote:

Originally posted by Marci2:
Check out the thread I started, titled Please share with me.

Same question, with responses.

Welcome,
Marci

Thanks, I'll check it out. Thread titles like that sure make it difficult to find what you're looking for, though.

Rberry- don't go by the titles. With the gazillions of threads here you can't categorize by titles, there would be too many duplicates.

I would suggest you go to search, type in the words you are looking for and then sit back and read....

May I ask one more thing? Do you not need a diagnosis before getting all the financial aid, etc? Is it not necesary to know what he has in order to decide what place will best help him?

I may be missing something. If so, I apologize.

I might be wrong but I think of the elder living in your home would be the ASSISTED LIVING phase and they would stay there until they move to the SNF phase.

I live in my parents home and care for them there. When I agreed to this arrangement it was with the understanding that if I was unable to take care of their medical needs, they would be moved to a SNF.

I fought both of them for over three years about an ALF and they would not budge. They do not want to be parted with their "Stuff". So my Stuff is in storage and I live with their Stuff.

I am not a nurse and have no intentions of becomming one. I will do what I need to do to make them happy that they are in their own home and hope that it never comes to needing to move them. But if it does, I will be able to do it knowing that I tried to abide by their wishes for as long as it was possible.

I am lucky that I was in a position that I was able to move to them. I realize that this is not always the case. If moving a LO to your home is possible and you can get them to do it, I think you can make it work if you think of your home as the assisted living phase.

If you must move your LO to an ALF, then you need to go forward with your plans and make sure that you still offer them support and be their advocate for fair and good treatment. You will just need to define what your roll is in their current phase and do what you can in that caregiving roll.

Something that has hellped me with dealing with the elders is that if there is a major issue, I will have a formal meeting with them. I print out an agenda and tell them that it is time for a family meeting. I will give them a copy of the agenda and pens. Then I go over everything on the agenda from my stand point. Then I give them each a time to speak.

I brainstorm the issue before hand and have three or four solutions on the agenda. I ask them if they have any other suggestions that might be better. We discuss it and together come up with the solution. Afterwards, if there is any resistance, I remind them that agreed to it.

rberry,

Since your Dad is so young, and his long term memory is more intact, would you be able to approach him this way? I find with Dad, if he has a paper to refer to, he stays on track more.

With the day care, you might want to approach him as being a helper for the others. This way, he would feel useful.

My Mother has been living with us now for a bit over 2 years,,,and has never contributed a dime for anything! She has been having such mood swings,,and refuses to go back to the nuerologist for another checkup.

She is the "Queen",,and I am her servant! I'm sick an tired of it,,,never any privacy,,my life evolves completely around her.

She constantly accuses me of "taking all her money,,her purse,,and blah blah blah,,,there isnt' a day that goes by that wew dont' have to play hide and seek for something.

I told her today,,when she is at ADC this thursday and friday,,that I will be checking into assisted living for her,,,an assisited living "does not" take any insurance payments,,,that will be out of her pocket!!!

I figure that after all of her money is depleted,,then we can apply for Medicade,,,and then place her in a facility that will accept that as payment,,along with her monthly SS and retirement check.

I'm wearing out,,,and I want my life back,,I'm still young and want to enjoy life with my husband while I can. I want to go and see my kids and my grandkids,,I want to go back to work,,,,I want to be free!

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
My Mother has been living with us now for a bit over 2 years,,,and has never contributed a dime for anything! She has been having such mood swings,,and refuses to go back to the nuerologist for another checkup.

She is the "Queen",,and I am her servant! I'm sick an tired of it,,,never any privacy,,my life evolves completely around her.

She constantly accuses me of "taking all her money,,her purse,,and blah blah blah,,,there isnt' a day that goes by that wew dont' have to play hide and seek for something.

I told her today,,when she is at ADC this thursday and friday,,that I will be checking into assisted living for her,,,an assisited living "does not" take any insurance payments,,,that will be out of her pocket!!!

I figure that after all of her money is depleted,,then we can apply for Medicade,,,and then place her in a facility that will accept that as payment,,along with her monthly SS and retirement check.

I'm wearing out,,,and I want my life back,,I'm still young and want to enjoy life with my husband while I can. I want to go and see my kids and my grandkids,,I want to go back to work,,,,I want to be free!

**Raven,
I feel so badly for you. It does sound like you are completely burnt out and need some relief.

If an assisted living facility is something which she can afford, it may be the best thing for both of you. She would be able to interact with so many others, and you would have time for the things which you want back.

Then, when you visit her, it would be on different terms. You would not be the caregiver but her advocate, and perhaps able to interact on a different basis.

Good luck,
Marci

Marci,,thats exactly how I feel too,,,I think on one hand that Mother would be so much happier in a setting with other folks,,she could have activities and socialization,,and I would be her advocate.

Mom isnt' wealthy,,but she does have some savings and a cd and a mmkt cert..so she should be able to live comfortably til the money runs out,,,then by that point in time,,,she would most likely have to be placed in a alz unit,,that does accept insurance.

I feel sick to my stomach over all of this,,but she has been a real pain in the ass lately,,and I just can't please her enough. She goes to ADC 2'xs a week,,,and grips about that. I do get respite care for 6 hours a week,,but I normally just have them come on a saturday night so that hubby and i can get out of here,,alone,,and just enjoy each other! And Mom complains about that too.

She is beginning to fabricate in her own mind,,,more and more crap about how I am ,,and I'm not that way at all... I just feel lost ,,,dont' know what to do anymore.

Yet Mom still presents well,,to others,,,but here at home when its just her and I ,,,she is a wench! I honestly think I'm getting an ulcer over all of this.

My husband has been wonderful throughout all of this,,,very helpful when he can,,but he's getting fed up too...He actually told me tonite when we were having coffee in the kitchen,,that he would like for her to get out of here and move into assisted living,,he's just had it.

So in reality,,it breaks my heart to have to get Mom to move,,and its not going to be easy,,cause as I stated before,,,she is tight with a buck,,but I intend to really shop around for the best place that "I" feel will give my Mother the very best care and treatment needed to keep her happy,,if thats possible.

Sorry this is long,,guess I just needed to have a venting pity party for myself,,,but I know you understand....thats why we're all here,,,,for each other. Peace.

Raven, best of luck with reclaiming your home and your life. You've done so much and taken a lot of grief. So what if she's tight with a buck? Her bucks will go to care for her and she's not entitled to your home and your care; it's a blessing and a gift, and you''re not appreciated like you deserve. I don't mean it's her fault; it might be the illness or it might be her nature, but regardless,there's only so much a person can take.

I too am at the burnt-out phase: I currently have my parents living with me, both with dementia, but my mother is absolutely the drama queen, incredibly demanding, orders me around, and I'm left cleaning up after both of them. I am just exhausted. I have a home health care agency coming on Friday to interview all 3 of us - with the idea of initially having someone coming just 3 hours a day, 3 days a week. My mother can be just wonderful around other people, but with me, she's nonstop critical/demanding/incredibly needy and she definitely knows how to push my "guilt" buttons!!!!
Joanne

Raven- Just a question....When I looked at assisted living I was told that we would be able to use up her money to $2000 and then insurance would take over at that point. She would not have to be moved. Is this not the way in all states or does this differ?

Oh and I was told that the difference between assisted living and NH would be how mobile they are. BUT each assisted living center varies on what they offer in regard to care and how mobile they have to be. All the centers in my area had med delivery, assistance with bathroom and shower/grooming. But they have to be able to move on their own. One center allowed walkers but they were not allowed in the dining room. So once a person got to the point of no longer being able to move unassisted then that center would not work. Another center allowed residents to be in a wheel chair and both walkers and wheel chairs were allowed in the dining room. Some centers offer nothing more than med. delivery. If they cannot handle bathroom or grooming then they had to look elsewhere. So what would be the cut off from assisted living into a NH would depend on where you are and what you are looking at.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
My Mother has been living with us now for a bit over 2 years,,,and has never contributed a dime for anything! She has been having such mood swings,,and refuses to go back to the nuerologist for another checkup.

She is the "Queen",,and I am her servant! I'm sick an tired of it,,,never any privacy,,my life evolves completely around her.

She constantly accuses me of "taking all her money,,her purse,,and blah blah blah,,,there isnt' a day that goes by that wew dont' have to play hide and seek for something.

I told her today,,when she is at ADC this thursday and friday,,that I will be checking into assisted living for her,,,an assisited living "does not" take any insurance payments,,,that will be out of her pocket!!!

I figure that after all of her money is depleted,,then we can apply for Medicade,,,and then place her in a facility that will accept that as payment,,along with her monthly SS and retirement check.

I'm wearing out,,,and I want my life back,,I'm still young and want to enjoy life with my husband while I can. I want to go and see my kids and my grandkids,,I want to go back to work,,,,I want to be free!

Raven, I'm sorry to hear that you're having such a difficult time with your mom. I'll always remember how you were there for me and how you set me straight, now it's my turn!

If your mom has money, and you have seen an elderlawyer, why isn't she contributing to the household? Where was she living before coming to your house? You are entitled to reasonable, room and board and possibly a caregiving salary. I hope you are at least using her money for ADC and the respite care, you should not have to pay that!

What about your siblings, do they ever take her?

You said, "Mom isnt' wealthy,,but she does have some savings and a cd and a mmkt cert..so she should be able to live comfortably til the money runs out,,,then by that point in time,,,she would most likely have to be placed in a alz unit,,that does accept insurance."

What is she spending her money on? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by an alz unit, that accepts insurance, does she have long term insurance? Or do you mean medicaid?

I hope I'm not jinxing myself by saying this,(fingers crossed!!) but my mom is compassionate, non demanding, and thankful for being here in my home. She can be whiney and lazy, but for the most part she is no trouble, The only thing I "resent," is that I can't leave her home alone...

Now my MIL, she's another story........LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Kimberlee:
Raven- Just a question....When I looked at assisted living I was told that we would be able to use up her money to $2000 and then insurance would take over at that point. She would not have to be moved. Is this not the way in all states or does this differ?

Kimberlee, by insurance, do you mean Medicaid?

Assisted living here in Michigan does not take private insurance,,or medicare,,,which it the insurances that my Mother has. For nursing homes,,she isnt' allowed to have anymore assets than $2000.

If and when she goes to some type of AL ,,,then the money will come out of her funds,,,cause I sure as hell dont' have that kind of money!

I've not been in contact with an Eldercare attorney,,but over the phone ,,one time....and she was very pleasant,,but you have to know that Eldercare attorneys work for the person,,,not their caregivers!

I was granted legal guardianship of Mom about 6 weeks ago,,and nothing was ever brought up in the session about her money,,so I never even thought to ask anything about getting paid for anything,,because I figured that it would make a mess even messier.

But I am going to be getting in touch with the senior resource gal that was so kind and helpful to me in getting respite care for 6 hours a week,,,cause I'm sure that she can point me in the direction of an eldercare attorney,and I can at least ask some valid questions and get some answers,,,I hope.

Sorry I sounded like such a whiney ass,,but its just been one of those days from hell,,we all have them. Thank you to all of you that have given me encouragement and advice,,,,I will definatley be checking alot more stuff out,,,Peace

Oh wow. That must really tie a persons hands! I am sorry Raven. I was rather relieved to know that we could send my Grandmother to assisted living no matter her finances. I was told to pick a nice room so that she could have the best because once her money is used up medicare would take over and she would be able to stay where she was. So we really weren't hurting ourselfs by choosing a bigger room. KWIM?

And I don't think you are whiney. I will be here soon enough so you better not call me whiney when my time comes! LOL! I think we all are entitled to a little whine now and then!

First, it is very rare, I suspect, for an elderly person with dementia to "agree" to move to a facility. If you should decide that it is necessary to move them, you just do it. If possible, take them to the place several times before you move them so that it may seem a bit familiar. Telling them that they will be moving there will probably upset them and then they will forget it. When you do move them, be sure you make their room as personal as possible, and visit them often - just for short visits if they are upset with you and then longer when they have settled in.
Second, my sympathies to Raven. I realized when my stepdad died and left my mom to me that if I tried to keep her in my home, she would eat me alive. I love her and I want her to be well cared for and as happy as possible, but luckily my sense of self-preservation kicked in. It also occurred to me that I may only have 10 or 15 really good years left myself. I would not want my daughters to sacrifice their lives and families for me, but I do think they love me and would see that I was well cared for. Don't feel bad Raven - you have already given her a wonderful gift.

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Assisted living here in Michigan does not take private insurance,,or medicare,,,which it the insurances that my Mother has. For nursing homes,,she isnt' allowed to have anymore assets than $2000.

If and when she goes to some type of AL ,,,then the money will come out of her funds,,,cause I sure as hell dont' have that kind of money!

I've not been in contact with an Eldercare attorney,,but over the phone ,,one time....and she was very pleasant,,but you have to know that Eldercare attorneys work for the person,,,not their caregivers!

I was granted legal guardianship of Mom about 6 weeks ago,,and nothing was ever brought up in the session about her money,,so I never even thought to ask anything about getting paid for anything,,because I figured that it would make a mess even messier.

But I am going to be getting in touch with the senior resource gal that was so kind and helpful to me in getting respite care for 6 hours a week,,,cause I'm sure that she can point me in the direction of an eldercare attorney,and I can at least ask some valid questions and get some answers,,,I hope.

Sorry I sounded like such a whiney ass,,but its just been one of those days from hell,,we all have them. Thank you to all of you that have given me encouragement and advice,,,,I will definatley be checking alot more stuff out,,,Peace

Raven, your posts have always been encouraging and full of advice, you deserve to be a little whiney! I know I've done more than my share of it!

You said, "I've not been in contact with an Eldercare attorney,,but over the phone ,,one time....and she was very pleasant,,but you have to know that Eldercare attorneys work for the person,,,not their caregivers!"

That is true, she will inform you as to how to best protect her assets, but also how they can be used toward her care. The fee for the lawyer should also be paid from her money, because as you said, they work for her, the person. It is for her best interest.

You also said,"For the nursing home, she isn't allowed to have anymore assets than $2,000 before medicaid will pick up."

The lawyer should also explain to you about prepaying funeral expenses before the $2,000 spend down.

I think it would be in your mom's and your best interest to see an elderlawyer. One social worker told me we should have seen one, years ago. The purpose is not to hide or transfer her money, but to learn how to best use it for her care.

Kimberlee: I was just reading through the postings and saw that you were told that when your mother runs out of money, Medicare will take over and pay for her custodial care at assisted living. That is NOT so. Someone has absolutely misinformed you.

Medicare does NOT pay for ANY custodial care, or assisted living, ever. It never has. Medicare has a benefit for "skilled care", but this is for short term for continuing necessary medical care in a skilled setting, as said, only for a short period following an acute hospital admission of three full days or more and must be ordered by a physician and follow strict guidelines for medical necessity.

I would feel terrible if you felt secure and based your plans on misinformation. Do a Google search for Medicare benefits as well as Medicaid in your state, and print off the information. It will be very valuable in your planning efforts.

Medicaid pays for custodial care. This is where, in most states, the individual must pay their assets down to $2000, and then coverage begins. However, it has been my personal experience, Medicaid usually pays for convalescent settings and NOT assisted living settings. Please check this out in your state. There is a big difference between assisted living and custodial care in a nursing home; their licensing is quite different.

Best of wishes to you. This is all very confusing when you first start, but necessity makes us all fast learners.

Sorry it should have been medicaid but all the same EVERY assisted living we looked at said the same thing. I can't imagine that each one would lead me wrong. We have looked at 4 to date and I spoke to one with dementia care on the phone too. One would even allow her entry before her home sold and she would just have to pay down to the $2000 from what she had in the bank in which medicaid would take over her payments and would then also take over selling her home at that point(if it had not sold yet) and the money from the house would then revert back into her paying until again that was used up and then she would go back to medicaid. I asked this and had a lenghtly talk about it as selling of homes have slowed and I was concerned what we would do if the house did not sell right away. Dunno...I can only go by what they tell me.

quote:

The lawyer should also explain to you about prepaying funeral expenses before the $2,000 spend down.

I think it would be in your mom's and your best interest to see an elderlawyer. One social worker told me we should have seen one, years ago. The purpose is not to hide or transfer her money, but to learn how to best use it for her care.

I didn't know that myself...thanks!!!

My DH just told me that his Aunt, who is the same age as my Grandmother, will be going into one of the assisted living places we liked. I wonder if I shouldn't use that to our advantage as my Grandmother liked that Aunt. Might be something to think over if she has a 'friend' to start out with.

quote:

Originally posted by Kimberlee:
Oh and I was told that the difference between assisted living and NH would be how mobile they are. BUT each assisted living center varies on what they offer in regard to care and how mobile they have to be. All the centers in my area had med delivery, assistance with bathroom and shower/grooming. But they have to be able to move on their own. One center allowed walkers but they were not allowed in the dining room. So once a person got to the point of no longer being able to move unassisted then that center would not work. Another center allowed residents to be in a wheel chair and both walkers and wheel chairs were allowed in the dining room. Some centers offer nothing more than med. delivery. If they cannot handle bathroom or grooming then they had to look elsewhere. So what would be the cut off from assisted living into a NH would depend on where you are and what you are looking at.

Do you have an Arden Court in your area?....Pricey but worth it....The Arden Court in my city told me that my Dad could stay there (he is not there as yet) until the point he needed constant 2 man transfer. They even have hospice come in for some people.

Kimberlee, Insurance will not take over on assisted living. Medicaid will pay for a nursing home once all assets are gone.

I missed if you have DPOA...If you do, perhaps "therapeutic lies" are in order for your Mom. She does not need to know every detail of cost, etc.

Sorry if I am repeating what has already been said...Just checked in and was reading what you posted and wanted to respond .

Marci

There is no Arden Court here. Closest is in PA I believe.

I will certainly double check on the medicaid. My SIL was a social worker for the department of aging here and she has been there to guide me through all this. Seems weird that so many would tell me one thing and yet it is incorrect.

quote:

Originally posted by Kimberlee:
There is no Arden Court here. Closest is in PA I believe.

I will certainly double check on the medicaid. My SIL was a social worker for the department of aging here and she has been there to guide me through all this. Seems weird that so many would tell me one thing and yet it is incorrect.

Yes, it does.

Do they perhaps have a license for both, and transfer from the assisted living area to the nursing home area? That would be the only way it could be covered.

Let us know what you find out,

Marci

No, no nursing home area. I sure hope you are wrong or we will be having another game plan to have to work out!

quote:

Originally posted by Mama's Friend:
Rberry- don't go by the titles. With the gazillions of threads here you can't categorize by titles, there would be too many duplicates.

I would suggest you go to search, type in the words you are looking for and then sit back and read....

May I ask one more thing? Do you not need a diagnosis before getting all the financial aid, etc? Is it not necesary to know what he has in order to decide what place will best help him?

I may be missing something. If so, I apologize.

Thanks. I agree the search is useful, but titles like "I have a question" really don't do anyone any good, they should at least give a small clue as to the message content.

My dad has been diagnosed with Dementia...but they just don't know much about it at all. They're mystified that it's happening at such a young age (58).

Kimberlee: I do believe that Marci2 is absolutely correct. If I am not mistaken, I think Marci2 is an RN as am I. I was Administrator of Patient Case Management for many years, so I have much experience in how misunderstandings can come about. Since your state is not listed, I cannot do any research myself; but it is best if you do this anyway.

What may be happening is a mixing or confusing of semantics. This can happen even with professionals, and especially between professionals and lay persons. You can call the Medicaid unit for your area and speak with one of their staff to ensure complete accuracy.

Also, in any conversation, stop and clarify the semantics of "assisted living", "custodial care", "nursing home", Medicare vs. Medicaid. Also try to obtain some of this information in writing. Also know that sometimes, especially at nursing homes, etc.; that occasionally a less than properly informed person may be speaking with you. Not always, but sometimes - I personally have had this experience.

MOST IMPORTANT: As mentioned before, please go to Google: Enter the word Medicaid, then enter your state, then enter long term care benefits then click on go. This will bring up your own state information for you.

Then you can do this again and add the words criteria for qualification. Print all this off to keep as resources for yourself.

To avoid unexpected disaster and distress you will want to be certain that everything is absolutely accurate. The Google search for your own state's program will ensure this.

I know what was said and I didn't take it wrong. But I am not going to be a happy customer if I was told wrong!! I am waiting for my DH to come home and call his sister.

But in the google search you mentioned, I found info about benefits for state employees and their extended family and am going to have DH look into that too as he works for the state. You might have helped find a treasure!! But the more I read your comments the more pissed I get and can feel my blood pressure rising. I certainly know what was said and I fully remember the detailed chat I had with the one facitily head. I will be calling if it is wrong as we were planning on using this as a 2nd route should home care not work. If it is wrong that now changes the whole plans and I am not happy about that!!!

I did find this but it is rather little in detail but might be where this info is coming from. Off to search some more.....
http://www.aarp.org/states/nj/nj-news/victory_governor_...mark_longterm_c.html

Yes, Kimberlee, Johanna is correct...

I am an RN and was Manager of Care management.

Please try not to get angry or disappointed until all the facts are in....There actually are facilities which have license for both and transfer from the assisted living to the nursing home section once medicaid needs to kicks in.

You may need to look for that type of facility if there are any in your area. Check with Medicaid. They may even be able to tell you which qualify..

Good luck, thinking of you,
Marci

I found some info on a medicade wavier in NJ for assisted living
http://www.bianj.org/Brain%20Injury%20Medicaid%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

Not fully understanding it but I am going to have my SIL look it over and explain in dummy terms! LOL!

If nothing else, I spent my day googling and found some interesting info along the way!

I am doing the HAPPY dance....Whoooppp whooooppp.... and, for once, I am glad to live in NJ!!!

My SIL says that in NJ there are many Medicaid waivers in which Grams would qualify for once she sells her home and that, indeed, the assisted living staff was correct. She would have to sell her home, work her assests down to $2000 and then Medicaid would take over long term care in assisted living if that is where she is ment to be or we can switch her over at any point to nursing. Can I say how I am jumping for joy!!! *Ahhhh breath in, breath out*

Well now that sounded aweful. Not that I am jumping for joy over her going into assisted living but rather that the option is there when the time comes. I learned something new today!

Good for you Kimberlee!

That's great news, Kimberlee!

HURRAY! I'd do the Whooooppp dance with you if I thought I wouldn't rupture something! I'm so very pleased for you.

Kimberlee - please just make sure that the assisted living accepts medicaid. Some do, some don't. I live in NJ, too. MIL is in a private-pay assisted living. We had to make a decision and move her, fast, and didn't know all the info ahead of time. So, we're eventually going to have to move her to a different assisted living (while she still has assets) that she can run down to 2000 and then, as you said, medicaid will take over.

I know the one we are looking at does as this is who I spoke with about all this in the 1st place. But I did notice that some of the homes don't. That is actually how I found out about the waivers as one of the homes at the shore listed online that they don't accept the medicaide waiver and any assistance would have to be done through the family of the patient. I copied and pasted that into google since I had no idea what that was and waaaa laaa.