Hello, I have never posted anything here. I just read it to help me understand this disease and what I am going through.

My dad is 81 years old and was diagnosed with the beginning of altzheimer's about about 2 1/2 years ago. The disease has been slow, he is still pretty good about most things and physically he does great. He still knows and recognizes people, but has very little short term memory. He is very short-tempered at the littlest of things, several times per day, like someone parking in front of his house or a long red traffice light gets him irate and frustrated and he over-reacts to the point that he is not even aware of where or why he is so enraged. I pay his bills and do a lot of the daily things he can no longer do. He lives with my mother who is 80 but is not as physically well as he is and is therefore unable to help out much with him. I check on them almost every day at lunch to see they take their pills and things.

About a year ago I started getting concerned about his driving. He got lost coming out to my house which is about 30 miles from his. He lives in a smaller town so I felt as long as he wasn't driving on the freeway it would be ok, just to go to the store and run a few errands. A couple of months ago he gave my daughter a ride in the car and she was really afraid the whole time she was in there and feels he should not be driving. We took the car away until someone through my doctor's office can give him a test. My mom can drive if she has to but I am worried if the car is there he will drive it and I am really afraid that he will hurt someone or himself and my mom. Dad is up at the crack of dawn and mom sleeps in to 10AM so dad has a lot of unsupervised time in the morning. He says he won't drive, he just wants his car there. I make sure they get to the store every couple of days but this has really been tough on all of us. My dad keeps telling me he doesn't understand why if his drivers license is not expired he has to take a test. He doesn't remember a lot of things but he does remember he drove and has a car and a driver's license. The doctor's office wants to first give him a written test which dad thinks he will pass easily. The rest of the family does not.

This whole thing is breaking my heart, he asks me everyday where his car is and even though I have 6 brothers and sisters he associates this with me, I guess because he sees me most. How do I know if I am doing the right thing? Am I over reacting by taking his car now? Maybe he just had a bad day when my daughter was with him. It is a huge step and I am taking away the one thing that makes him feel he has some independance still. When do you know that they can no longer drive? I really enjoy this forum, thank you to you all.

Welcome kll,
If you've been reading here long enough, you'll know that you are not alone. Taking the car/keys away from our parents is very hard on all of us. Driving is such a symbol of independence. But respect your gut and respect your daughter's fear. My own experience is that flashes of irritability signal that my ADLO is confused by what she's experiencing and her way to express control of the situation (that is, to mask her incomprehension of something) is to call it "ridiculous" in an angry tone. You've done the right thing and perhaps what you can do to ease your guilt is to shift blame to the doctor. Tell him the doctor instructed that he should not drive until he takes the test and there's nothing you can do. Empathize with him that you understand his sadness at not driving any longer but that you know he must agree with his doctor that it's best not to drive until he can be certified by the doctor. This will pass, eventually. Perhaps you can talk to your siblings about stepping up their contact with the folks to take them shopping or on drives so as to minimize dad's sense of loss. Best wishes, Beth in SC

Hartford insurance has a good site that addresses this issue. Driving and Dementia
If he is impatient and getting lost I think you are doing the smart thing to take his car away. If you search on driving on this site you will find some sad stories of people who had major accidents and in some cases lost everything in liability suits. Other family members could also be held responsible if they knew he should not be driving and allowed it anyway.

If this is in a small town just think how you would feel if he killed a child down the street or a family that you know.

Many people have addressed this by telling their LO that the car needed to be repaired and the parts are not available. We have to learn to lie to our loved ones even though it is very difficult for most of us to lie to our parents.

quote:

she was really afraid the whole time she was in there and feels he should not be driving

The ultimate test: would you be willing to let a small child ride with him, unsupervised and unaccompanied by anyone else except your dad?

Surely not, if a family member is frightened by being in the car with him.

I think you have to take her report at face value and not second-guess her. Be thankful you had someone trustworthy in the vehicle who could - and did - report back.

Notice, too - you're not really challenging her facts and observations. You're just dreading the thought of what you think will be a really unpleasant series of conversations with your dad.

Rather than hoping the doctor will do the dirty work - AND hoping that your dad will remember what the doctor tells him (not likely) - I suggest that you go with loving lies:

The keys are lost and you are getting new ones.

You are borrowing it for a few days because you need to get to work and your car is broken.

The car is not working and must be fixed. Then go park it somewhere he cannot see it.

Believe it or not, you will be able to (and will have to) say these reasons over and over again. He will not remember and he will not "catch" you.

It's time to get on with it. You are right to be concerned that he could hurt or kill himself, your mom, or innocent bystanders. It happens. In fact, it happened in my family.

It's one of the hardest things about this whole disease, watching their world's shrinking, taking away the things we have done all our adult lives. I'm afraid that I didn't take the keys until Mom and Dad were in the NH. He was a dagerous driver. I wasn't aware of it until people in the community told me afterward.

I think that the best thing is to remove something from the car so that it will not start. If he has a mechanic, tell him not to come and fix it. If that won't work, then you need to remove the car from the house. Keep it at your home to use on outings or for appointments. Make the doctor or the person at the DMV the bad guy. "They" took your license.

Be prepared to deal with the wailing and ghashing of teeth. He may go gently, but I don't see that happening that much, if what I read on these boards is true...

Just keep up the excuses, the loving lies, the fibs, until you can get him tested and them blame it on the person who decided that he failed the test!

Oh and don't believe him if he says he just wants it in the driveway and he won't drive it.

Lies!! He'll forget or he'll decide that he's not going to abide by the agreement and he'll be off down the road.

I got to the point where I just did not, could not, take my parents' word for anything. It makes me ashamed to admit it, but there it is.

In all likelihood,,your Dad "should no longer be allowed to drive",,,,not even on the back roads. Good for your daughter to let you know she was upset with his driving,,,I'm sure she feels badly for her Grampa too.

Take the car back to your Dad's,,,just take out the battery,,,or the distributor cap,(if cars still have them!). It will just give him comfort to see his car sitting there.

Its really hard for our LO to loose their driving priviledges,,,its such a smack in their face that they are no longer "independant" anymore.

And its not your Dr that does the testing in the office,,its up to the Dr to send your Dad to a special center for a "simulated driving test" visually and driving a car control on a computer component. Then Secretary of State will give him a regular written test and road test,,thats if he passes the "simulated test" at a testing center. You need to discuss this with his nuerologist,,not the primary Dr.

You have alot of siblings,,,is it possible that some of them can also help out with your folks in taking them shopping and appointments? I do hope that your'e not one of the unfortunate ones,,who has alot of sibs that don't help out. Of course its different if they all live way out of town or even the state.

Also,,,how about dial a ride that many cities and counties have for seniors that need rides to places within their own community. You can call Senior Resouces and ask about that.

Best of luck to you and your folks. Please do keep us posted on things Peace

Thank you so much for all of your feedback, I feel better with my decision already. Some of my siblings live out of state, I have 3 that live here that are to busy to help much. We are going to have a family meeting at Thanksgiving to discuss care, I don't think anybody knows how bad it is getting. My daughter helps me out by taking them places, I am so grateful for that.

I really do appreciate the words of advice, all very helpful.

Stand your ground and understand you're doing what's right for dad and all others out on the roads.

This was one of the toughest things I had to confront my mom with, and happy it's all behind us today.

To know I did the correct thing, I would viusualize my parent having a horrible accident and killing people. This kept me in the proper mode of going forward with my plans to NEVER GIVE HER THE VEHICLE BACK....the end! She will occasionally ask about the car, but I quickly change the subject.

Best to you!

I'm so glad that you received so much advice and idea's as to how to help with your situation.

I would just like to advise you that when you have your "family meeting" about your Dad,,,I would hope that your Dad isnt' there.

The idea of a family meeting of the minds and each one doing "their fare share",,,shouldn't be discussed around ear shot of Dad,,it will only make him feel angry and inadequate and defensive. Good luck,,and let us know how things go. Peace

About a year ago my DH had only driven once in the last year. I wasn't afraid of his driving as much as I was afraid of him getting lost. But I knew what was coming. We use his car when we go out together so removing a battery wasn't going to work. Then I got what I thought was a brilliant idea (and so far so good). I work for a retail lumber yard and we make keys. I took his key to work and had a notch removed. It looks like his key and he thinks he could drive if he wanted. So far he hasn't tried. But if he does - the key doesn't work I tried it. This wouldn't be a good solution if he was trying to drive all the time. But he doesn't. The biggest thing is to remember it doesn't work if he volunteers to get something out of the car. But a year later he doesn't know the key is fixed and a got a free pass on this issue. I pass this along to anyone who can use it. He couldn't call to get the key fixed, couldn't remember now a year later, that the key didn't work by the time he got back in the house. I don't even think he knows anymore that he has a key for the car. I always have to unlock the doors.

Joan

Also, you have to stay alert even after you think they've stopped driving.

My mom voluntarily quit driving over ten years ago - no dementia, she just didn't feel safe driving after an unrelated injury.

Turn the clock forward. Shortly after she was diagnosed, about 18 months ago, one morning she suddenly grabbed the car keys and headed for the door to drive to the pharmacy for a completely demented reason, totally confused - but VERY insistent and determined.

She totally didn't remember that she had quit driving many years earlier. (And did I mention that she did this with one broken arm and one permanently disabled arm?!)

Thank goodness her CG wouldn't let her leave with the keys (much to my mom's great fury - she called me screaming at the top of her voice).

And even now, a year-plus later in a dementia-care ALF, she'll say things like "I don't drive much but I like running out in the car for quick errands." And of course, there's no car at all for her to drive and she isn't driving anywhere for any reason.

My father was very angry when his doctor told him he could no longer drive. He was getting lost - would carry his home phone number on a piece of paper in his wallet to call my Mom so she could tell him how to get home.

I went on the web page for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts - followed the links to the DMV. I downloaded a form to report his medical conditions to the state and stated that I felt he was not fit to drive. The social worker at the NH helped to get the remaining forms filled out by the doctor. She got Dad to sign the form - told him that it would help him with driving.

The state sent a letter that his license could not be renewed. I felt it was better to let the state DMV be the "bad guy" since he couldn't argue with them!

As Jazzy said, you have to stand your ground on these issues. Your parent's safety and that of innocent bystanders comes first before anything else. It is not easy, particularly when you may have been raised not to argue with your parents or "talk back" as I was, but it needs to be done.

kll,

What they've all said. To reiterate: You may feel bad now, but just think how much worse you'd feel if he injured or killed a child (or an adult).

Unfortunately for you, you are in Utah. My "severe dementia with psychosis" mother passed the driver's test in Utah, long long long after she shouldn't have been driving. Which made my battle all the harder. They give people way too much time and basically give them the answer key while they are taking the test. Unless the dementia has rendered them completely senseless, they can pass the driver's test in Utah. Took my mom a full hour for the 15-minute written exam, but she did it.

And I got zero help from her geriatric G.P.

This disease has forced us to go back to the days of raising kids. Think of our parents as kids and how would we treat or raise them. Would you allow little Johnnie to ride his bike without a helmet or without his prescription glasses? NO.... Therefore, why allow a parent who's confused and physically "unfit" to drive, get out on the road behind the wheel? Set down the rules and follow them as you would with little Johnnie.

Changing roles to now tell the parent NO, isn't easy, but necessary to guarantee their safety and/or safety of others around them.

Best to you all... "DRIVE RESPONSIBLE OR NOT AT ALL"!!

quote:

Am I over reacting by taking his car now? Maybe he just had a bad day when my daughter was with him. It is a huge step and I am taking away the one thing that makes him feel he has some independance still.

There is no way you are overreacting.If your Dad is confused, and gets frustrated and angry over a long red light his driving days should definitely be over.

The legal repercussions of allowing someone to drive that has been diagnosed with dementia are horrific.And that's just the financial end of the liability.

The cost of a human life is way too high to pay just to allow your dad some freedom yet,or independence.

This is an awful, cruel disease. One of only many horrid aspects of this disease is that it robs our loved ones of their meaningful lives a little bit at a time.It's awful, and I wish there was an upside, but there's not. And it is heartbreaking to have to watch,and be helpless to do anything to stop it.

I hate this disease.My prayers are with you and your family.Please make sure your Dad no longer drives.

I can just say- if anyone thinks it's hard and gut wrenching to take the car away from their parents, think of how hard it will be to live with yourself if that parent injures or kills someone while behind the wheel! About 20 years ago there was an incident at a K-Mart near my home. A man with Alz got confused between the break and gas and drove through the front window of the store, into the cash register area. Several people were injured, including my friend who was pregnant and her mother. Thank God both of them (and the baby) were ok, and though others were injured, too, no one was killed.

quote:

Originally posted by Denise-Elaine:
kll,

What they've all said. To reiterate: You may feel bad now, but just think how much worse you'd feel if he injured or killed a child (or an adult).

Unfortunately for you, you are in Utah. My "severe dementia with psychosis" mother passed the driver's test in Utah, long long long after she shouldn't have been driving. Which made my battle all the harder. They give people way too much time and basically give them the answer key while they are taking the test. Unless the dementia has rendered them completely senseless, they can pass the driver's test in Utah. Took my mom a full hour for the 15-minute written exam, but she did it.

And I got zero help from her geriatric G.P.

It isn't just Utah. Dad, blind as he was, got his DL renewed when he was 80 and didn't have to have it renewed again until he was 85. They didn't even make him take a test. Of course, at 80, he was still a scary, but decent driver and still driving out of town and sometimes, gulp, out of state once or twice. He even wanted to take a trip to Oklahoma the summer I placed him and wanted my opinion about it. "I'll take a lot of breaks and I won't get lost." I talked my brother into driving him instead. And all Dad did afterward was to complain about how scary HIS driving was...

I made an appointment yesterday with the office administering the test. He will take it next Wed. Nov 11. It is a rehab facility so it will not be administered by the state, hopefully that means they will be tough. My fear is that he will pass the test which would be terrible. I really am feeling good about my decision now, I know it is the right one, thanks to you all. I just will have to live with the sadness of it but I couldn't stand the thought of him hurting somebody. I to have nightmares about him hitting a child so I can live with this but hopefully it will get easier. I will let you know how it goes.

If you know he shouldn't be driving then even if he passes the test he still should not be driving. The real issue here is not whether they can legally drive but whether they can safely drive.

I know him failing the test will give you an excuse and someone else to blame. But maybe you need to tell him he failed anyway.

So many people are hung up on whether their LO has a license and trying to get it taken away. That is really not the point. Even if they do not have a license many will try to drive if they have access to a car.

Unless you have a behind-the-scenes assurance from the rehab place that they WILL ensure he fails the test, I wouldn't take him.

What are you going to do if he passes? It's been known to happen, so this isn't a theoretical risk.

Will you let him keep driving despite the abundance of warning signs you've described above?

Even if he fails, it will not be the end of his desire to drive. Test or no test, you will have to have stressful conversations with him and you will need to disable and/or remove the vehicle.

Please pull up your big-girl panties or your big-boy britches and TAKE ACTION rather than hoping the doctor will make it easier.

Disable the car. Lose the keys.

Every day you wait is another day someone else's life could be ruined.

I know I sound melodramatic, but a close relative with dementia killed a stranger because she was still driving, and a woman with dementia who was still driving killed a very bright and promising teenager in my city within the last year.

I did take the car away and put it up at my daughter's house but my dad keeps telling me as soon as he passes his test he can get the car back. His regualar doctor told him he could take a test about a month ago so that is why I scheduled that but I took his car away as soon as I realized how bad he was. He just tells me everyday that he wants his car so I was thinking the test would help him move on. I was hoping he would forget his doctor told him he could take a test, he rarely remembers anything but no luck.

Hi,

Here is a horrible accident because a driver got mad

http://www.salemnews.com/archi...story_240213251.html

Also knowing he shouldn't drive and you let him you could also be liable if he should hit or kill someone. The Dr told my FIL you have the right to kill yourself, but you have no right killing anyone else. If I even hear that you think of driving I will contact the Registry so fast your head will be spining (it helps that her nephew just got hit by and elderly driver the day before who had early stage AL, thankfully he just had bumps and bruises). Right then and there he handed me his car keys and haven't asked for them since and even knows that we had sold his car to my Mother. Now he just ask how she likes the car. But he will tell others that he can drive, but chooses to have a chaufer(LOL)..... I play right along with it all. But taking the car I think is the hardest thing to do.

Good Luck
Bear.


P.S. I wouldn't leave the car, because he could always get the missing part replaced. FIL sister did that, they took out the coil wire, she called triple AAA and they towed the car for her to her mechanic and got it fixed. They may have memory problems, but I find that they are very resourceful when need be.

Bear :-)

quote:

I did take the car away and put it up at my daughter's house but my dad keeps telling me as soon as he passes his test he can get the car back...I was hoping he would forget his doctor told him he could take a test, he rarely remembers anything but no luck.

Right, they never forget what we wish they would!

I'm so glad you moved the car.

You could always say they called and had to reschedule the appointment.

My Dad became VERY worried about money when he was in stage 6 and could no longer drive.

Every time he brought up the subject of getting in his car to "GO HOME", I would say, "Dad, if they catch you driving...they are going to fine you THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS!!!"

That usually ended that conversation...for 15 minutes or so anyway....

Another thing...I hope it is the same in your state.

We voluntarily sent my Dad's license in to the DMV. They in turn sent him an official letter, telling him he was no longer able to drive.

That really helped.Good luck!

I just had the exact same issue with my father and took the advice from many on this message board. I simply took his car to my house and have been telling him for a week now that 'the car is in the shop being repaired.' He's been asking less and less about it as the days wear on. I felt very guilty about this at first, but, as others have mentioned, the risk of a possible accident causing injury(s) out-weighs the risk of hurting my father's pride.

Welcome to the most supportive website you will find as you deal with this awful disease. These members can make you feel good about your decision and reinforce that you have made the correct decision.
Please accept from myself also that, yes you are doing the correct thing by not allowing him to drive anymore.
I handled a little different. I had a key made at the dealership that would unlock the door, fit into the ignition but would not start the car. Everytime she tried it, I told her that we would have to take it into repair shop and would do it tomorrow....tomorrow never came.
You know that you are doing the best thing for your parents in this situaion.
Hugs to you and yours.
Sheryl