My dad in law moved in with us a few months ago.

He is mid-stage, perhaps further. I do not yet know the numerical classes.

We are in the process of selling his previous home and filing a Ch 7 bankruptcy for him. His wife, my mother in law, passed away a few months back and his medical obligations are in the hundreds of thousands.

Here is what happened tonight. It is not the first time.

He got drunk. We are trying to stop this, being very gentle with him so far.

He beecame VERY angry that our 16 year old had not swept the back porch around the pool. He obsessed over this and finally exploded. He threw a tantrum of incredible proportions and decided he was "moving home".

We have DPOA that he signed in 2004. When he signed this doc, he explained that he did not want to end up like this, exactly as he has. And that he wanted to make sure we would be there to help him Of course, we understand things better now, and none of this is his fault.

However, he got so angry I thought he might try to hit me or my wife.

He then called a former neighbor and asked him to bring his pickup truck tomorrow to move dad in law home.

If this occurs, I guess we will tell the neighbor about the AD and hope he understands. He is not a native speaker, so this could be tricky.

If it is a problem, I suppose we must call the police. The agitation this could cause concerns me greatly.

Dad in law cannot live day to day, but seems very coherent if you havejust met him and do not live with him. He can carry on a normal conversation about anything.

However, he cannot keep his meds correct, cannot remember anything. He eats and then asks, 5 minutes later, when breakfast will be served. He also loves online games and such, but can never remember simpe things like URL's or passwords, or how some of them work.

He has a tendency to defecate in his pants. He then tosses these into our master bathroom for us to do, but refuses to admit (or can't remember) that this happened.

We plan to take away his booze, but this will cause many problems too, of course.

I guess I am rambling, and apologize.

It boils down to:

How to best take away the booze?

How to explain the notion of the DPOA? He gets amost violent and claims we are conspiring to steal his freedom and money. He has no money really, and this is costing us more than we can afford.

Please do share, and thank you so very much. I am looking forward to being here to offer and request support over the long term.

Dad in law is 77, btw, if that matters.

Best wishes!

Welcome to the board. We are all glad you have found us, though sad you find yourself needing to be here. I am so sorry you are having to go through this. It would be a good idea to see if you can get a translation for his old neighbor so he knows what the situation is. Since DIL does not remember eating 5 minutes ago, it may be that in the morning he doesn't remember that he wants to move back home.

As for the alcohol, some people have watered it down so he isn't drinking as much instead of having to go through the added drama of taking it away. If you go to the find button at the top and type in "alcohol" you will find many other threads on the exact same topic that may help give you some more ideas of how to handle it.

As for the DPOA, I don't have any advice for you other than there will be several other people that will be along that can give you their advice as well. Good luck and keep us updated on how things are going.

HI Lflood
Welcome to the site. It's a great resource and helped me keep my sanity so far.
You have a double dilemma - drinking and Alzheimers. Has your fil been officially diagnosed with Alz? You mentioned that he can't keep his meds straight. What meds is he taking?
I don't know - is detox an option? Then perhaps he could he put on some kind of mood stabilizer. I'm just guessing - not an expert at all.
One other thought - if he gets violent or if you think he's going to be a danger to you or your wife, call the cops. I'd also keep your son away from him and make sure the two are never alone together.
k

Thank you so much for the almost instant replies. You have already given us answers that may save the day.

I was fearing taking the booze away. He would be very difficult if we did so abruptly. Watering it down is an idea I had not thought of, and will probably work very well.

Yes, he was diagnosed in 2004. As a result of the diagnosis, he decided, on his own, to have a DPOA and will done. My wife and I had them done about the same time and that spurred dad in law to do so too. He thanked us for the concept. He also said he would try his best to remember his decision, when the time came. Of course, that was impossible, given the disease.

He has been on aricept and namenda for a few years and all of his doctors have confirmed the disease.

Thi forum is already a Godsend, and I thank you so much. My wife just registered too and we will be regular posters, for advice, and offering what little we might be able to.

Dear Lflood, Welcome to these message boards. What you can do to help yourself right now is to take some time and read these boards. You will learn that you and your wife are not alone. This is the best place to educate yourself. You will learn more about what you are facing. The others members will help you.

re: filing for bankruptcy: I seem to recall that Social Security income cannot be attached by creditors. If there are no assets and no other income, perhaps your FIL does not have to go through a bankruptcy. It costs some money to file for bankruptcy. I am not a lawyer and I am not giving legal advice. Others may come along who might know more about this. Have you called Legal Aid for their advice?

It was prudent of your FIL to sign for a DPOA when he was diagnosed. Most people affected by dementia lose their ability to handle their finances. And unfortunately, there are many people who take advantage of vulnerable seniors and get them to buy all sorts of unneeded items. There are many posts about how family caregivers handle their ADLOs financial affairs.

You have come to the right place. Come back often.

Iris L.

You mentioned a swimming pool. Please make sure that there is a fence with a locked gate around it. FIL is or will be like a toddler. And also with the alcohol issue...the pool is just another hazard.

The drinking thing has come up very often. I would say he needs some meds to help with the obsessions but can't mix them with booze.

Try watering down his liquor.
He obsessed about the pool use misdirection and get his head and mind going somewhere else.
I found that sometimes I would go out there in the backyard with my dad and we would talk about what needed to be done til he had to much info and would get his head somewhere else. BUT he wasn't drinking cause I KNOW how hard it is to get through to the drunkies since my mom is an alcoholic.

Must be tough with AD and a big buzz on.

use the search to find out some other drinking stories and maybe you can find some answers there..keep in touch ..

"How to explain the notion of the DPOA? He gets amost violent and claims we are conspiring to steal his freedom and money."

Don't waste your time trying to explain. His ability to reason is gone. Even if he were by some miracle able to understand the concept and remember signing the papers momentarily, he would soon forget again. As you have seen from experience, discussing it only agitates him.

So don't explain, just do what needs to be done to keep him safe.

My mother got into the habit of drinking every night for about a year or so before we moved her and my Dad closer to my sister. She would have a drink, nod off, wake up, have a drink, nod off, wake up .... all evening long. She thought she was having only one drink per night because each time she awoke the thought would occur to her anew - but it was actually three or four black russians every night!

After the move we simply refused to buy her more alcohol. She was angry and pouted like a child (arms crossed over chest, lower lip stuck out - it was really quite humorous in a way) for one day. The next day she forgot all about drinking. She never asked for another drink after that first day.

However, if your father-in-law is a long time heavy drinker, it might be a good idea to discuss with the doctor how to get him off the booze safely. Detox for an alcoholic may require medical supervision.

As far as the bankruptcy goes, my father is currently in debt for more than he will ever be able to repay - he got in over his head with shuffling balances between credit cards some years ago before my sister and I stepped in to intervene in our parent's affairs. We have been paying minimum payments for awhile, but now his assets are to the point where we can't do that any more. We're in the process of moving him to an Assisted Living facility and when that happens, we will no longer be making payments. I am not telling the creditors where he has moved to so they can not contact him. They can pester me all they want.

According to the Elder Law attorney who did our POA's and wills for us (she specializes in Medicaid law) there is nothing they can do to recover money from him. If they sue, there are no assets to make recovery from. As DPOA I am NOT personally responsible for his debts. They can't touch my personal assets to recover his debt, nor am I legaly liable for them in any way. Once Dad passes they will have to get in line and wait for their share of any remaing assets when his estate is settled. But there won't be any estate to settle, because it is already all gone.

Your FIL's situation is not the same as mine, since his bills are medical, not credit card debt. However, before you pay for bankruptcy proceedings, contact an attorney who specializes in Elder Law and get some advice on whether the bankruptcy is really necessary. Find out what would happen if you simply ignored the debt.

The other thing you can do that will help is to agree with everything he says, no matter how silly, wrongheaded or confused.

He wants to go home? Agree it's a great idea. Don't explain all the real reasons that it ain't gonna happen.

I assume you have talked to an elder care attorney. Maybe filing for medical backruptcy would be a better bet, if his only expenses are from his wife's illness and resulting medical care. If you have not talked to an elder care attorney, one that specializes in elder law, then maybe you should.

quote:

Your FIL's situation is not the same as mine, since his bills are medical, not credit card debt.

I think medical debts and credit card debts fall into the same category, as far as bankruptcy goes. The only things that don't are a few things such as income taxes, under certain circumstances, and spousal support for someone who is divorced -- the bankrupt person is still responsible for paying those. So if your FIL does not have any assets, then he may not need to file for bankruptcy.

Lflood, we usually use a seven-stage system to describe where our loved ones are in the progression:

http://alzheimers.boomja.com/S...zheimer-s-26575.html

Most medical professionals use a three-stage system:

http://alzheimers.boomja.com/T...zheimer-s-26574.html

Talk with your FIL's doctors. It sounds as if he is developing behavioral symptoms, which may be a side effect of one of his medicines, or be due to the AD itself. If they are a side effect, then it may be necessary to cut back on the med or switch to a new one. If they are due to the AD itself, there are meds which can help alleviate the problem.

Call the police now, before there is a problem, to let them know your FIL has AD. That way, they will know how to respond if someone else has to call them about something your FIL has done. Also let the fire department know your FIL's situation.

In the meantime, until the doctors get this new symptom under control, both you and your wife should carry a fully-charged cell phone with you at all times. That way, if your FIL does become violent (and that could happen, without warning!), you can lock yourselves into any nearby room and still be able to call for help. When you do call, be sure to tell the dispatcher that your FIL has AD, and ask to have him transported to a geripsych facility for evaluation.

Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry about the rough night you had.
I agree with the others who have said to contact his doctor. It may be best to have his doctor decide how to handle the alcohol issue. Withdrawals from alcohol can be fatal, but can be done safely in a hospital.

Dear Lflood: Welcome to the Caregiver's Forum. We are so glad you found us.

You certainly have a difficult situation, and it appears it is fraught with significant challenges.

The first question I would ask is; does your Dad have a Neurologist who sees dementia patients as a routine part of his/her practice?

If not, this may be a good starting point. Neuro is excellent at making an accurate diagnosis as to type of dementia (there are many different ones and treatments can be different), and they are also very good at complex patient management and medications.

The alcohol certainly plays into all of this, and what you have is a dual diagnosis situation; dementia and alcoholism - two very profound diagnoses.

Consulting an MD would be a good thing. You do not want to cut his alcohol too drastically if he has been used to drinking quite a bit. This could cause severe withdrawal. Also, sometimes withdrawal abrupt or otherwise can cause side effects which could be mistaken for dementia rather than withdrawal. So, professional guidance would be good.

The idea of a cell phone on your persons is a very good idea. Do not hesitate to call 911 if he becomes physically aggressive and harmful to anyone including himself.

Sometimes, our loved ones (LOs) need to spend a bit of time in a GeroPsych Detox setting so as to safely detox them and also to assess them for their current dementia state and medication needs.

This is something to discuss with your doctors.

Let us know how everything is going, we will be thinking of you.

I would also like to recommend going to the page here where you pick which forum to enter. There is one which is for asking questions of a professional. These are very experienced social workers employed by the Alz's Assn and their advice can be very, very helpful.

I will be thinking of you and your family,

Johanna C.

Hi Lflood,,welcome to the forum. I'm sorry about your FIL,,,but it sounds as if you need to contact his Dr and have him placed into the physc ward and treated not only for alzheimers,,but also alcoholism.

The two are a bad combo. It also so7unds as if he needs his medications changed ,,cause the aricept and namenda are no longer doing what they should be,,,that,,or definately needs behavior meds introduced,,yet drinking could be very possibley lethal mixing them together.

Caring for a LO with any form of dementia is tough enough,,complied with alcohol,,and a family,,and a LO with AD getting angry with one of the kids,,teen or younger,,well its a bad mix.

I wonder,,,did you understand what you were getting yourself into,,before you took in your FIL?

I think you seriously should have a good heart to heart with your husband about the possibility of placing his Dad in the proper secured and trained facility where he can receive the care he needs,,and the booze kept away from him.

If worse comes to worse,,your husband will have to apply for "guardianship" of his Dad,,and your husband will have the right to sign his Dad in to any and all care facilities .

Really think long and hard about keeping your FIL living with you at your home. He could also become physically violent with you,,and I'm sure that you also hate having to smell his "accidents" much less cleaning them up.

Things will not imrove,,but will continue to get worse as this awful illness progresses. You and your husband must come to a viable meeting of the minds. I wish you alot of strength to get thru such a difficult and sad situation. Please do keep us posted. Peace