I'm sorry if this question has been handled here before but I haven't seen it so I thought I'd ask.

What do you all do about getting your ADLO a flu shot -- or do you? I haven't actually researched this myself yet but I'm curious if it's recommended or reacts with any of the AD meds. My mom is in an ALF. She usually sees the in house doctor and I haven't asked him yet if he has the shot available. So I may have to take her to another doctor.

I only realized today that I had forgotten all about it last fall (my first flu season with mom) because I was too overwhelmed but I know my mom used to get the shot every year before her diagnosis and I'd like to keep her well in the ALF.

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

Lori

My Mother gets a flu shot every single year. I think its really important,,especially for my Mom,,she has no spleen,,therefore she has no immune system. She also will be getting another pnuemonia shot this year too.

I have never seen any difference with a person with AD having a flu shot,,,doesn't change their behavior as far as I've ever seen.

However,,if your LO has "never" had a flu shot before,,of course they run the possibility of actually getting sick with the flu from that shot...so simply be observant to any changes to them if they should look or feel or act ill.

Peace

yes AD patients can and should get the flu vaccine. their caregivers should have it too. You can NOT get the flu from the flu shot. That is a myth. It uses a "killed" form of the flu virus the nasal form of vaccine however could potentially cause a mild flu as it uses live virus

My mom's day care provides shots, and they recommend them for caregivers, too. My mom had one last year with no problem.

A couple (few?) years ago when there was a shortage of the flu vaccine, I remember that it was being reserved for older folks and those whose health was otherwise compromised.

It's probably a very good idea for your mom to have one.

Lori:

The ALF will arrange for flu shots
For all residents.

Thanks Marty and everyone.

I called the ALF and they do indeed do flu shots.

Duh. A simple phone call can work wonders.

Raven, I've never heard of a pneumonia shot! Is this common? What does it do? I feel so dumb about the medical stuff sometimes.

Lori

I get my flu shot each year. Though the flu shot cannot cause the flu, for the past three years, each time I got the injection, I soon developed a cold and flu-like symptoms. In each instance, I had no known exposure and was perfectly healthy prior to the injection. Don't know why, just did. Guess it's better to have two weeks of blowing my nose and moderate coughing versus a full-on helatious case of the flu later on which may cause a serious outcome.

As for the pneumonia vaccine, go to RXList and look up Pneumovax. Lots and lots of good and positive information.

To abstract a little bit, (go to site for complete info), annually, there are about 500,000 cases of pneumococcal pneumonia in the U.S. (Let's call it pp for short.) Of those cases, the U.S. annually sees 40,000 deaths from this! That is a huge number.

Some PP has increasingly become resistant to antibiotics. Best to prevent. The death rate with PP in the elderly ranges between 30% - 40%. Pneumococcal pneumonia causes about 3,000 cases of pneumococcal meningitis per year in the U.S.

The efficacy rate of the vaccine ranges from 76% to 92%. NOT EVERYONE SHOULD RECEIVE THE VACCINE - TALK TO THE DOCTOR AND READ THE VERY INFORMATIVE INFORMATION ON RX LIST.

For persons 65 and older, or for those with a severe physical condition, there is a recommendation that a revaccination be done ONLY AFTER five years from the first dose.

Pneumovax can be given at the same time as the flu shot and is given in the opposite arm from the other injection. There may be a little fever, mailaise, headache, etc., see RXList.

My husband and I had this about four years or so ago and had no side effect. Guess as I age, I will have to have it repeated. If the vaccine is repeated prior to four years, there is risk of negative effect, so talk to your MD after reading RXList. Both my mother and step-father have also had Pneumovax and they too did well.

Caution should be used in those who are SEVERELY compromised with severe cardiovascular or severe pulmonary disease and who are on chronic long-term corticosteriods in whom a systemic reaction could cause a serious negative outcome. Again, consult with your physician.

Pneumovax is given to those who are Diabetic, have no spleen, who have sickle cell, HIV, Leukemia, Lymphoma, Hodgkins, Multiple Myeloma and the elderly, especially those at risk at any age.

The rule of thumb is, the vaccine is generally recommended for those 65 years of age and older who are not allergic to it and who do not have any of the contraindications. (Again, read RXList for information.)

Anyway, if not contraindicated, I wanted this for our parents as well as for ourselves. An ounce of prevention and all that. I had pneumonia once after having a particularly dreadful influenza, and I wouldn't want to have it again. It was miserable.

Lori,

When exMIL escaped the last time, the hospital called & wanted permission to give her both the flu & pneumonia shots. I did not give permission over the phone. When I got down there, I asked if they were using killed or live virus for the flu shot. They said it "wasn't live". I asked to see the vial - it read 'modified live'. So she didn't get the flu shot, but did get the one for pneumonia.

There is always a difference of opinion regarding these vaccines. My personal opinion is that there are way more viruses out there that aren't covered by whatever vaccine the government decides to allow the drug companies to make, so I won't take them. Although exposed, I've not gotten the flu in over 15 years & it's been longer than that for pneumonia. Sometimes there is a false sense of security with these shots & while they help some people, I guess, I don't think they should be mandatory. (The hospital "allowed" me to refuse the flu shot for exMIL, but insisted upon the pneumonia one. I disagree with that.)

I always get a flu shot for my AD husband, and one for me.

One year, I couldn't get the "killed" virus vaccine shot (they didn't have enough to go around, and I didn't fall into any of the urgent-need categories) so I did the nasal form (FluMist). nikkij points out that it can potentially cause a mild flu. The pharmacist mentioned (AFTER administering the FluMist to me) that it could cause "flu-like symptoms."

May I say that it's very hard to tell the difference between "flu-like symptoms" and having the flu. I was sick as a dog for a week. Felt like an idiot ... I paid $35 to make sure I had the flu over Christmas.

IMHO, stick with the vaccine shot! I've never had a problem with that, other than my arm may ache a bit.

Thanks everybody -- Joanna and Becky especially -- there is so much to learn about! It seems as I'm learning with my kids (3 and 1 -- both got their flu shots this morning) I'm finding how much there is to learn about advocating my mom's health, too. She was always so self sufficient! I rarely get flu shots. There just seem to be shortages so often that I figure I'd leave it for those who most need it. But I'm taking care of so many people now, I probably will get my own, too. But thanks for the advice. I will definitely look at the types of virus used in the shot and check into the pneumonia shot.

What a great place this is.

Lori

Don't forget the pneumonia shots too. I think they are every 5 yrs.

Flu shots -- like other vaccines -- have become more controversy. Some folks blame too many vaccines on autism, some blame the preservatives in flu shots on the rise in ALZ in today's population vs years ago.

I do know my mother is now a lot more sensitive to medicines. She was better last year BEFORE the flu shot. If I have any thing to say about it, she won't get one.

She hates her life and is waiting to die. The "experts" tell us the flu lasts 2 solid weeks or more. Who do you know that has actually been sick in bed for 2 weeks or more? I don't know anyone who qualifies under this strict definition of the flue that is given to us every year on the news.

Who do you know that died of the flu in recent years? I haven't heard of anybody other than what the news quotes as statistics.

I think all this flu shot pushing each year is all a bunch of BS to sell us more meds and a false sense of security.

What's so wonderful about living an extra 10 years if your enjoyment is close to zero for those 10 years?

As an RN, I can tell you that each year I have seen patients die from the flu and the pneumonia and other conditions it brought them.

Four years ago I myself got a horrible, horrible flu - it brought me pneumonia for the first time in my life, I was dreadfully ill for almost a month. I was in bed over two weeks and I was younger and healthy.

As an RN, I have seen many people, usually the elderly admitted every year with overwhelming influenza.

Each and every year, the huge Kaiser Hospital (large HMO) near us fills to over-capacity with horribly ill influenza patients, and they have to shut down admissions for other reasons. They even have to divert influenza patients. This becomes even more objective as HMO's absolutely, positively do NOT admit patients unless they are horrendously ill - it's about cost containment. So, all of these patients are horribly ill and it is mandatory they must be hospitalized.

Three years ago when the big influenza epidemic hit, all the local medical centers and small hospitals were to capacity secondary to grievously ill influenza patients.

And . . . illness from influenza and influenza induced pneumonia is no picnic - it is nasty. Also, influenza can induce meningitis and other very nasty secondary severe conditions.

I would take influenza very, very seriously, because it is serious business, especially for the very young and the very old.

MaysDaughter,

I religiously get a flu shot every year, because I came within a hair of dying from the flu -- when I was young and strong and healthy, mind you, NOT one of the "at-risk" categories -- and I'd really, REALLY rather not go through that again. My temperature shot from 99˚ to 105.5˚ in less than three hours, and the only reason I survived was because I was hauled to the hospital immediately. I spent the next week there, with the minister visiting twice a day to pray since they were sure I wouldn't make it. I cannot tell you how much pain I was in -- strep throat is a walk in the park by comparison. And I didn't get any of the secondary complications Johanna mentioned, I just had plain old flu itself.

I take flu very, very seriously, and I make sure my DH gets his shot every year. I can't imagine suffering like that on top of AD.

My mom wants to die anyway. She's never wanted to live to a ripe old age of misery.

If GOD chooses to send her the flu and she dies, it will be God's will.

Christians should not fear death. God only sends your way what you can handle.

Her life is making my life miserable. Some of these things have to be put into a higher power's hands at some time. I'm tired of all the scare tactics about the flu.

Besides, she rarely leaves the place. The others will have the flu shot, she'll be pretty protected as is.

One thing I've figured out...in this country, the elderly are getting better care than the rest of us cause Uncle Sam is paying for it. It's like the doctors and drug companies are experimenting on them as long as medicare pays for it.

Well, people do die from the flu, especially those with compromised immune systems. I have asthma and I get the flu shot every year.

Flu killed 36,000 elderly Americans in 2003 alone.

This is from the CDC:

Influenza (the flu) is a contagious respiratory illness caused by influenza viruses. It can cause mild to severe illness, and at times can lead to death. The best way to prevent the flu is by getting a flu vaccination each year. Every year in the United States, on average 5% to 20% of the population gets the flu; more than 200,000 people are hospitalized from flu complications, and; about 36,000 people die from flu. Some people, such as older people, young children, and people with certain health conditions, are at high risk for serious flu complications.

That's enough for me to get the shot. Here's the CDC website for Flu info: http://www.cdc.gov/flu/

There are plenty of pseudo scientists who are stating it cause all kinds of other problems but I'm going to stick with the recommendations of the CDC.

MaysDaughter---Neither Charlie nor I fear death...but...that does not mean that we will count on God to keep us safe if we attempt to cross a road without checking for traffic. Getting a flu shot has always been standard operating procedure in our household.

You are in control of your household. Assuming that your mother is at least 65...If you feel comfortable over your mother not taking advantage of something that would be fully paid for under Medicaid...so be it.

It's not about money. I think you missed the whole point. She's had these shots for years but now she is very sensitive to drugs.

Why take a chance on making her health worse...ie her quality of life?

She wants to die...the flu might be a relief. She's miserable...let nature take it's course sometime. God works in mysterious ways. Maybe the flu is one of them.

My mom 94 and I 54 have never gotten the flu shot. When I was working with the public, I would get a flu every winter or spring. Meanwhile my mother never got the flu, whether I lived with her or not.
She was the strongest in her family, all have passed before her including her twin.
So in our situation, she will not get the flu shot. But it is an individual descision; if you don't get colds or illnesses, why would you get a vaccination? I do however think that the pneumonia shot is important.
We knew quite a few people that would get sick immediately after getting the flu shot. And that one year that they ran short, a women stood in the hot sun for several hours, passed out, hit her head on a curb and died.

MaysDaughter,
Make sure you have discussed Your decision to NOT have your Mom get a flu shot with her medical doctor! I do believe God works in mysterious ways but not as Influenza. Many elderly patients get very ill with the flu and suffer a lot! They don't always die immediately!!
Peace and Hope,

I'll be getting my mother a flu shot to avoid a repeat of February's hospitalization. (Hospital said it was pneumonia, her doctor said it was either that or bronchitis or flu.)

If it would be a swift ticket to heaven, I'd skip immunizations.

But when she hit 103 fever she had to go to the hospital. Then it was restraints, screaming, endless needle digging, went crazy during oxygen treatments, clean-up after a bowel movement was a red skin burn with blisters between her buttocks while mom screamed.

It was so much suffering and not a ticket to heaven. She remains in a living dementia hell.

If I hadn't taken her to the hospital with such a high fever, I'm guessing I'd be facing manslaughter charges.

mymom...your description of your mother's pain is certainly one reason to consider the shot.

I guess there is no easy answer.

MaysDaughter: Well. This one takes my breath away. I am so sorry.

"If God chooses to send her the flu and she dies, it is God's will" . . . . "Her life is making ME miserable" . . . . therein lies the sadness and the truth of the matter.

God CHOSE to send us the science to develop polio and whooping cough and DPT etc. vaccines, He sent us the science for making antibiotics, insulin and anticoagulants, etc. and yes, even the flu shot and so much more. If HE guided the science which has saved many lives from a miserable lingering death, why do we question Him re THAT and reject His gifts?

"Her life is making me miserable . . ." You are more than ready for her to die, in fact, this appears to be a strongly wished for dynamic. Frankly, you must be burned out to the maximum and I can certainly understand this.

However, HOW my mother dies is very important to me. Gasping and choking from pneumonia, struggling for every breath for days? Meningitis with severe effects and other dreadful indignities and beyond belief pain? No - I am not willing to have my mother suffer in such a horrible way WHEN I CAN PREVENT IT in such a simple manner and then try to attribute it to God and not myself.

This is NOT about US and making OUR lives less miserable - it's about them and loving appropriateness and ethics. Sometimes they say they want to die. But they do not choose to go in a dreadful manner. They want to go peacefully without struggle and pain. This is NOT about us relieving our own misery.

We must look at ourselves in the glaring mirror of honesty and deal with our own misery in another way and not at the expense of our LOs.

Guess if God has sent this science and we reject it and willingly invoke HIS name in order to to force meeting our own wishes wills and ends, when we go, it will be an interesting conversation with God as to why we did what we did and why we rejected the help he had for us.

And no, it's not all about flu "scare tactics." Easy to call it that so we can feel better about our own motives, avoid the actual truth and try to make ourselves feel better about what we so strongly want to have happen. It is NOT "tactics". Plain and simple. Can't put that old wolf into sheep's clothing - doesn't even go near to fitting.

"The elderly are getting better care than the rest of us . . ." What the heck does THAT mean? I'm here to tell you that in over 27 years as an RN, I've NEVER seen an iota of truth in that. Much to the opposite. You've mentioned that before, what in the world does that comment refer to? And even if there were one scintilla of truth to that - why would anyone resent it and not embrace the help?

What I may be hearing, is that everyone is doing everything for your Mother, but you are left to suffer with no one seeming to care.

I believe that the marketing of pharmaceuticals is a negative. But stating that doctors and drug companies are exploiting the people and Medicare is complicit in paying for it? What the heck does THAT mean when speaking of basic decency in care and prevention?

What - do we do away with physicians and most of all, do we do away with all medications including vaccines, anticoagulants, heart and blood pressure meds and antibiotics, insulin, etc.? Back to the dark ages - make decisions for personal motives and then invoke the name of God for such decisions to avoid the blame that may reflect back upon us? That particular plane can't get off the ground either. Too transparently seen through.

If you have an infection, do you get an antibiotic? If there is a cancer does one have surgery and/or chemo? Do we vaccinate our children? Are joints replaced? Are anticoagulants taken to avoid stroke? Do we take medication for arthritis or other pain? Do diabetics take insulin or oral hypoglycemics? Do we take blood pressure meds? It all belongs in the same basket.

If your mother has become a liability on YOUR life, why not let her care be cared for and/or monitored by someone else? It is not a just thing to hope and try to force that God will smite her down with the flu and she will die soon. Believe me, that is NOT a comfortable death. And it is preventable. If you need respite from her, why not make it happen? There is no shame or blame in that.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Have you logically ever thought about this - If God was ready for your mother to die and he felt this was the time, he would take her now. No flu necessary. Therefore, if she is still alive, (using your own logic), then it must be God's will that she live. So if you are doing anything to try to hasten or cause the death, then you are going against God's will. Think about it.

As one declines in health, the immune system gives out and is an open door to viruses and bacteria. The fact that OTHER people get the flu vaccine does NOT protect HER. One visitor coming down the call and sneezing/coughing and air currents sends the virus into the patients rooms, and voila! Mom has the flu.

Is your mother in your home? If so, perhaps she could get supportive care or respite care in a NH instead. Could you hire help? Hospice? If she's in a NH, call Hospice and let them monitor her for you for a bit and get yourself some breathing room and healing time.

If your Mother is actually declining, have you contacted Hospice to assist her AND you? If not, why not? This is completely paid for by Medicare and all other senior insurances including HMO's. They even provide you a personal Chaplain in addition to so much more.

One can support the loved one as best can by seeking the best alternative level of care when all is falling down around us. If at home has torn us to shreds, then an alternative is needed not only for ourselves, but because our LO can get better unbiased care in such an instance. Hospice can follow at home or in a facility.

What it does sound like is that you are so burned out you are beyond the boundaries of needing relief. Let us know more about what is happening in actuality. However, trying to hasten or cause the death to get relief from misery and then claim "God did it" is NOT appropriate. Let's get that poorly thought of dynamic out of the equation.

There are other ways to gain personal relief. I know this is a horrendous journey. My mother is in Stage 7 of FrontoTemporal Dementia. My step-dad is approaching late Stage 5 into 6 of Alzheimer's. I get it. Boy, do I get it.

I came on strong, but this is a situation that one must address strongly as subtleties simply do not apply and can be taken for enabling. Please do not bring your mother worse suffering. Besides which, she can get the flu and it's dread side conditions and STILL survive, but struggle mightily and suffer greatly. You have the power to not have this happen by a simple two second vaccine injection.

But let's help you find your center again. What a dreadful situation for you AND for your mother. We're here.

"Cast me not off in the time of old age: Forsake me not when my strength faileth." Ps.71:9.

I'm putting this ttt because there is a lot of good information here to consider and somebody else has brought up flu shots again.

Johanna: I would never do anything to hasten my mother or anyone else's death. Your comment is uncalled for. A lot of people vent on here....that doesn't make then bad people nor does it mean they are doing bad things.

When I do think logically, I conclude that God does not exist. Everybody is entitled to their own opinins...Christians, Jews, Jehovah's Witness (no medical care there), atheists, and agnostics. I assume all are welcome here as long as they are respectful of others.

MaysDaughter - Thanks for bringing this back to the top & many thanks for your opinions. Don't take it to heart if you feel you've been smacked. We all have a right to voice our opinions (and that "right" is directly connected to our fine military fighting to maintain our "rights"!) please don't stay away or stop voicing your thoughts. I've been smacked too & it doesn't feel good-even kept me away for awhile. But I, for one, appreciate a different point of view. That leads to research which leads to knowledge. Knowledge is power. I was not raised to be part of "Sheeple" - obviously, neither were you!

Thanks again!

Mom always gets her flu shot and do I. I figure with the people that come in and out of the house, I don't want to take any chances. I even tell my sisters or my part-time caregiver, if you have a cold please call off. I don't take any chances. By the way, I could be wrong, but mom gets her pneumonia shot ever 3 or 5 years.

ttt

Wow, this one is getting dicey. Ain't gonna go there, to the medical ethics bonfire.
I'm Mom's health care proxy, and she is on End-of-Life care, no meds other than Risperdal for anxiousness & agitation. I said no to flu shot bc of that. (The first-shift RN on her NH unit never gets a flu shot.) Does my logic hold water?

My main goal in caring for my mom is to make sure she is secure, comfortable and as free from pain as possible. The flu can make the elderly very sick and can also lead to pneumonia.

The one year I did not get the shot I was laid up in bed for a week, absolutely miserable. My daughter took over caring for my mom and I don't want my mom to feel the way I did. She has been getting the flu shot for years...she had one yesterday and I'm getting mine tomorrow. We will also get the H1N1 when available.

To me, its all about making mom comfortable. It's a personal decison for all and a right to do what you feel is right for you and your loved ones without feeling guilty or being subject to religious rants.