My husband has Vascular dementia & Alzheimer's and I have had it!!!!!!!!!!!!! We've gone to his neurologist countless times, the dr. has determined there is enough decline to add a 2nd med and we have had a neuropsychological exam that goes into great detail about his diagnois decline and numerous recommendations for care as well as cautions about what he should/should not do. But most importantly it clearly states "this patient should desist from driving" so what in $$##!! am I suppose to do. I was so certain the MD would start the necessary process. But, he keeps whining about the loss of independence. C'mon are there not liabilities for this Dr.or are the liabilities for only me? It would seem to be so much easier if the medical professional would take a stand. Should I go to the nearest DPS office? Should I write a letter, Am I to make a formal request to the Dr for the necessary papers, WHAT?
My husband clearly does not intended to stop driving period. Renewed his license about 2 years ago, so he roughly has about 4 years left. I don't mean sound like I want someone else to take care of it for me but surely would like assistance and some directions. I feel so hopeless in all of this.
C-towngirl

In my state when a diagnosis of dementia is made, the physician is required to report it to the Motor Vehicle Adminstration. The MVA then rescinds the license. It is also possible for an individual to report an unsafe driver, in which case they are called in and tested. If your doctor won't report him to your MVA, do it yourself.

Hey cowtown,
I brought up a driving thread to the top...titled DRIVING...look here...some help for you.

Good luck...went through with it with my wife.

Roger

C-towngirl,
I think it is the doctor's responsibility to tell your husband that he can't drive and initiate the proper paper work! I would call the doctor and explain the situation without your husband being around. I would, also, send a certified letter to him about this matter. Do it now, don't wait! Your hubby could hurt himself and other people as well.
Good Luck

Keep us posted!

Peace and Hope,

It sounds to me as though the doctor HAS taken a stand by stating that "the patient should desist from driving". If you feel that you need more support from the doctor, talk to him and work out a plan the two of you can live with. I remember when I took dad's driving away, one time I mentioned that the doctor said he had to quit and he told me that he didn't need to quit driving... he needed a new doctor and would get one!!! (didn't happen... but he COULD have refused to go back)

Anyway, it's probably the hardest thing I have ever had to do regarding my parents, but we DID make it through. The thing you need to understand is that taking away the LICENSE won't convince him. It's just a piece of paper. He needs keys taken away and hidden and YOU need to keep the car locked at all times. :/ At least until he gets used to it all.

Call the state and report him. They'll make him re-take the test without telling him that you called. It can be explained away as simply as "everyone who hits the age of ---- (his age) has to be retested now.".

Anyway, you can blame "the state" if he doesn't pass the test. But if he DOES pass... you may never get him off the driving kick! I got "lucky"... I guess it was "luck"... and I took dad into the ER for a TIA. When he was released it stated that he couldn't drive until his generalist re-reviewed his situation and said that he COULD drive. Never happened. First we told him it was the meds. "These new meds say that you aren't supposed to drive while you are taking them so the doctor won't let you yet." Pretty much it stayed the meds with an occasional "the doctor won't let you drive yet... and if he tells you that you CAN drive and you have a wreck, HE can be sued for something YOU do."... Basically... LIE!!! Make up any excuse you can to keep him from driving. As I said above, hide the keys and keep the car locked. I explained to dad that the reason I had to do this was because I didn't want him to forget and drive off sometime... because it's been such a habit all his life.

It's NOT easy... NOT EASY! It's the first time you have to be the parent to your parent... sooooo hard!

Just remember that a LOT of us have taken the keys and we've made it through. It's tough but it eventually passes and you can move on to a new crisis!

Thanks to all of you for responding. I spoke to the alzheimer's hotline spokesperson and they did explain that with HIPAA Law the dr's responsiblity is to note in patients records of course what the diagnosis is. But, I am the responsible party in reporting to the DPS office and my plan is to go first thing in the AM. Yes, NDuke I definitely agree it is the hardest I've ever had to do yet I know I must. I also realize it will place a hardship on us because I am still working full time.
I also agree that a letter from the public safety office won't convince him either... I pray that if he is required to test he won't pass the test. I also plan to contact the dr's office again because my husband and the dr had a serious discussion about the driving and DH asked the the dr are you saying I can't drive a short distance anymore. The dr's response was, Yes. DH, then said well if I can't drive life is not worth living... as we drove home I told my husband how sad that made me and he apologzed and said he made that statement without thinking. But, later said no one could tell him not to drive. So, I will do what I have to, pray alot, cry alot and try to move on. But again I thank you all again and I will take all of the advise I can get.
C-towngirl

c-towngirl I went thru the same thing with my dad. We were taking away his independence!!! He had rather drive off a cliff etc. We were also hoping the doctor would take care of this. Wishful thinking. Although the doctor recommended he not drive it was ultimately the family who had to take the keys (or hid them) & tell him it was best he didn't drive. I told him there was a possiblity he could have an accident and hurt some one. I'm not sure how but that seemed to get to him. We also told him he would have to take a test before he could drive again. Well he was ok with that (not the reaction we wanted). At the time my mom was driving so he was ok with that. I would have never thought this whole situation would be so difficult. Yes there was a whole lot of prayer.

Disconnect the battery cable---hide the keys---let the air out of the tire---
Outsmart him...
in Texas---it takes a neurologist to rule a person with Alzheimer’s incompetent…
you could show him videos condemning his behavior…
give him the drivers test…
try everything he must not drive---I have seen it and its deadly---
face reality and love life…
make it into a real challenge---you need to win…for his sakes…
and squeeze in time for yourself…
involve the state only as a last resort…

(this is only advise and should not be taken as legal or medical advice, always be involved with your doctor [worry the doctor ask questions get records]thx for carin’)
kc

Cowtown,

I'm going through the exact same thing. My father-in-law (FIL) is STILL driving, but has yet to have his DL revoked, although I wish we could. It scares me to death every time I hear his truck start up. We're in the beginning stages of dementia/AD and I'm totally lost as what to do or when to be the "parent" and tell him he can't drive. GBY and you're family.

Does anyone know if a Dr. has ever been sued because they did not follow up notifying or clearing stating that an individual should not drive and someone got hurt?

Until it hits them in the pocket or have to deal with it through a family member they are not going to get it....

Hang in there............ it is hard.....

Does anyone know what the liability for caregivers/family is in such situations if there is an accident? If a dr. has declared someone unfit to drive even though the license may not be revoked, wouldn't it be similar to allowing an intoxicated person to drive? And what if there has been no dr. declaration but the caregiver "knows" the person is not safe behind the wheel? Both my husband and my dad fit into this category. I now do all the driving when my husband needs to be out of town on business but he drives himself in town. I worry about that, but can't take over completely. So could someone accuse me of negligence if he caused an accident?

I'm sure this varies by state. Maybe I should check with our DMV. Anyone have experience with this?

The person is liable read my above post for some suggestions on what you could do---
anytime you know that someone is a threat to the public you are obligated to stop them.
The doctor can only base his results on how the person performs during the exam... which may lead him to the wrong conclusions, however that is not per se malpractice---especially when you are talking about taking away a person's individual rights.
kc

Dear c-towngirl,

When my father was irrational about something, the way that your husband is being now, I would remind myself that if his mind was healthy, he would never say or think that (fill in the blank). If your husband's mind was healthy and the two of you were having a discussion about someone with dementia, he would probably say that the person needed to be gotten off the road.

That kind of thinking always helped me to follow though in difficult situations.

I don't know if this helps you at all to get through your ordeal with your husband - I guess what I'm saying is hang in there and don't listen too closely to what he is saying now; have in your mind's eye what he would be saying if he were healthy and it was about someone else.

Best to you, Lisa

[quote]If your husband's mind was healthy and the two of you were having a discussion about someone with dementia, he would probably say that the person needed to be gotten off the road.[/quote]
Lisa

Very sound advice---respect the person's wishes even when they have forgotten how to---
klcouncil

Hi,

Over at the hospital, I have heard it is very hard for physicians rule someone unable to drive because of legal issues.

A rumor I heard, however, was that the emergency department physicians are more willing to report people to the DMV. You could go to the emergency room for any mishap and mention the driving problem.

I have also heard that some DMVs also have a neurological test that would flag people who were cognitively impaired and not able to drive.

Is that true?

- SHCO

Hi,

I think PA DMV laws say that people who know someone is incapable of driving can be held liable. But I don't think this is enforced.

- Sharon

Hi,

Here is a report on screening of medically at-risk drivers at the American Medical Associtiation.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/433/agingreport.pdf

- Sharon

[quote]I think PA DMV laws say that people who know someone is incapable of driving can be held liable. But I don't think this is enforced[/quote]


I have also read were our loved ones could be liable if the injure someone else--such as a vistor to your home or someone in public---
I wonder is caregiver liable as well...
kc

c-towngirl, there is one thing in all this that needs to be remembered... a license is a formality and to a dementia patient, it's not necessarily required for him to jump into a car and drive away. Taking the license is NOT taking the keys... and unfortunately, it's the live-in caregiver who ultimately is the one to remove the keys. Your husband will probably try everything he can to get the keys or gain access to a car to drive. Heck! My dad decided that since I wouldn't let him drive the car in his driveway, he'd just buy another car and drive IT. Also, even if you get him to agree NOT to drive, you will have to repeat your arguments DAILY... perhaps even many times a day, because he WILL change his mind or just flat out forget!

So... get your story ready, blame ANYONE else but yourself... and dig in your heels for the struggle. :/ I hate to say it, but this is one thing that you are going to have to do yourself and it's NOT gonna be pretty.

My Dad had Macular Degeneration and could NOT pass the eye test and lost his driver's license in May of 2006. So what did he do? He had my Mom, who has Alzheimer's drive! I tried talking to Mom's doctor and she said "Oh, your Mom is just remembering when she used to drive a long time ago" so I had to have proof. So I dropped them off one day and then parked in an area where I could see their garage. Nine minutes after I had left, I saw them go to the garage, Dad backed the car out, moved over to the passenger seat and Mom got in the driver's seat and drove away! I then wrote a letter to her doctor and said that I had seen Mom drive and the doctor believed me. She wrote a letter to the state who sent a letter saying that Mom needed to come in and take a written test and a behind the wheel test. When Dad told me, I told him I would NOT put Mom through that so that was the end of their driving. I could usually count on my Dad to make good decisions, but in this area, he didn't. Good luck!

Nice job Kathleen.

Thanks for telling me I did a nice job! I was a nervous wreck knowing that my Mom was driving. Someone earlier posted a question asking whether or not you can hold someone liable if they cause an accident. The answer is "yes". And it does not make sense to lose your life savings because of a lawsuit! One of the ways I knew that my Dad was letting my Mom drive was by checking their credit card transactions on line - that way I could see where they were going and my Dad never knew.
Dad decided NOT to put Mom through the driver's written exam or road test and told her her license had been taken away. She was pretty upset. We bought the car from Dad to get it out of the garage. I read a good suggestion somewhere - take the money that you would pay for auto insurance, maintenance, and GASOLINE and put it into a jar and you'll have plenty of money to take a cab! My parents actually started using a cab to go out and eat, etc. after Mom had her license taken away.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike K,

here we go again,,,,,
MIL got lost going to her hair dresser..same one she has used for 12 yrs.. some town she lived in for78 yrs...not once but several times before the doctor called us and told us ,,,
She has ALZ.. she can not drive any longer she is a danger to herself and others...and then he said,, I have told you it is in her records...if you dont stop her and she causes a wreak,, YOU her family are to be held responsible and can be sued....that was all i needed to hear...
she lived alone but had friends that gladly took her anywhere she wanted to go and they told her NO i will drive.. you scare me to bad.
so she let them..
she had to go in the hospital for a couple of days..while gone her car was stolen... and found later in a big city 100 miles away. stripped and burned... INS. paid off on the car. mil got a nice fat check and she was happy.. when her birthday came around i took her to the drivers dept at state troopers.. they told her she had to take the written test ON A COMPUTER.. or she could get a picture id and surender her old license.. she said no she didnt want to take the test and yes he could have her old license...
end of story..
then she forgot everything that happened.. started telling everyone i stole her license.. adn hid her keys..
so her son, my husband showed her the ins.money in the bank..and she said oh i forgot....
then called the cops to me... what fun...
]that was a few years ago now.. she is in a really great NH..safe, happy as a bug in arug and does not even think of car ...
this monster called alz.. moves differently in all of theones it attacks.. but it will pass..
But Call your state troopers office and tell them what the doctor said.. i had to.. they will take care of it for you.. and please dont wait till your loved one hurts themselves or someone else....
good luck
zerotears

Just returned from a visit with my parents to my dad's doctor at the VA. He's been keeping tabs on his memory issues. Today he insisted that Daddy be scheduled for a driving test. It will be conducted at a local hospital by an occupational therapist using some sort of simulation. They will measure response time and other things that would not be noticed during a normal driving test. This sounds like a really wonderful way to judge fitness to drive. If he does not pass the dr. said he is required to report to the DMV. What a relief to know the decision will be someone else's. At the same time I am so sad for my dad. He looked so down while the dr. talked. I still have a lump in my throat.

Anyway, for those who are wondering how to know when a loved one needs to give up driving, perhaps locating an occupational therapist is a possible solution.

Thanks to everyone who offered comments and ideas on how to handle this difficult step and to those who shared their experiences thank you it helps to know that others have had the experience. To Harley Rainbow, I have the same lump in throat...bless your heart. I pray all goes well with your love one. Again, thanks to all for responding.

C-towngirl

C-towngirl,
In New Jersey it's impossible to call the DMV anonymously. If you do call them, you might check this out so you're fully prepared.

I'm suffering through the same thing right now. My thoughts are with you.
ECR

FIL is still asking me for his keys to his tracker. It is a manual transmation and with his back he cannot drive it...not to mention alz. MIL hid the keys at my request...good for her. He thinks I have them as I was the last one to drive it...out of the garage.
MIL asked him yesterday where he would go if he found the keys...He said, "I don't know, I'll know when I get there!". He still has his sense of humor. I do love him.