I first posted on 1/25/08 with a long narrative and the longer this nightmare goes on, the more I think the legal and medical systems are not in sync when it comes to AD/Dementia issues. We have been trying to get Mom's Dr to refer her to a Neuro since 12/06 or provide us a letter so we can spring the DPOA. We've documented behaviors to him twice in writing with the last one including two police reports of unfounded accusations against me. We are working with Mom's lawyer and as I've mentioned to him if we were trying to take advantage of Mom, we'd be using another lawyer and fighting HIM. For over 2 yrs we've been taping our visits with Mom. Her lawyer has copies of the letters, police reports and several of the tapes. The Dr has refused to listen to them. We felt we had no other choice to establish proof of what we were dealing with. My sister had an appointment today for herself with the Dr(she goes to the same Dr as Mom). She asked him for details of his latest refusal. For those of you who thought he was a quack before, just read this!!
He says that he's never given Mom the full memory test because she keeps asking him why he's asking her these questions, he calls our observations of Mom's behaviors as HERESAY and says he can't use that to diagnose her but has to rely solely on how she acts while in his presence. He also tells my sister that he's now trying to get her to see a Neuro but Mom refuses and he can't make her go. He also stated that she may be having a psychotic episode!! This stupid jackass makes my blood boil. In the last week my uncle called to tell me that "you've just got to do something". The next day my aunt called to tell me that she, another aunt, an uncle and his wife were willing to come meet with us and confront Mom to make her realize she needs help. This may not happen for at least another month and I don't expect her to cooperate then either. Just today Mom's lawyer called to tell me she'd come to his office ranting about her safe deposit box being empty and we must have stolen it. He's calling the Dr tomorrow and also is going to talk to the Probate Judge because he believes Mom is close to a "breakdown". I also asked him to call the bank Pres to verify the details he shared with me about 2 weeks ago. He's known our family for over 40 yrs and knows Mom is out of control. Oh and we also taped the visit my sister had with the Dr and we have also asked him in writing 4Q2008 to refer Mom to a Kidney specialist since she's had 5-6 UTI/Kidney infections since 2000. He refused! I fully intend to file a report to the State Medical Board on this jackass!!!!

In closing, let me say that I read so many of your posts that talk about tips/secrets you've used to get LOs to Drs, etc but I sincerely believe that we are dealing with someone who is an undiagnosed paranoid/schizophrenic who drank for 35+ years and killed a lot of brain cells and now has what is called confabulation. I have seen NOTHING posted on these forums that even come close to what we dealt with while growing up!! I'll give you one example. Mom and Dad would get drunk and she'd start calling Dad names. Then she'd threaten to kill him. Dad would go outside hoping she'd pass out. One night she pointed a gun at Dad and I stepped in her line of fire to take it away from her. My Dad was no saint and he'd hit her when she either hit him or pushed him too far. I was in high school at the time. There was no support for children like there is now so we never felt we would be protected if we reported it. Our house was so bad my brother/sister(twins) went to live with another set of twins and our parents threatened to have their parents arrested for kidnapping if they didn't come home. They came back so their friends parents wouldn't be arrested. It's water under the bridge but gives you perspective on how hard it is to deal with Mom's hatefulness now!!! Sorry for the long vent but I had to get this out of my system!!!

Just a thought, have you thought about going through the court system to get guardianship. It sounds like your family is all in accord, Mom needs help.

I need a minute to get over the wow factor.

Ok, may I ask why you haven't taken your mother to another doctor? I probably know the answer to this, it's because your mother probably refuses to go. I hope the lawyer can talk some sense into this doctor. At least your sister has a choice and hopefully she switches herself to a new one.

Other than that, my heart goes out to you and I wish you the best of luck with this. I've read many other's stories on here about less than optimum parents, yet they have to deal with this horrible disease that their parent has.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that much of the medical community really does not understand this disease. It's really a shame. We the families suffer enough without having the medical community not able to help us.

I just read the above by Ytram - good advice.

I would bet your own diagnosis is right on target. I too hope your sister will find another doctor for herself.

I don't have any words of wisdom, but I can certainly understand your frustration.

I guess the doctor is not worried about malpractice for a wrong diagnosis. Or perhaps he just doesn't want the wrath of your mother after him.

How old is your mother?

My heart goes out to you.

Caregiver01,

I sincerely hope that you are able to get your Mom to a point where she will get the help that she desperately needs. This sounds like a living he!!

I am so sorry that you've been through the mill with this idiot doctor and your Mom!

Please keep us posted on how things turn out.

Do you currently have a DPOA and are trying to make it in effect?

In our case, the DPOA was effective from the day it was signed in 2004. This has saved us a lot of trouble. It is all in the wording of the document and state laws vary.

Ours went into effect, legally, the day it was signed. Now, five years later, we have had to begin using it. Please consult an elder care attorney if there is any question on the matter.

I suspect, from your very detailed history in this post, that you already have explored this, but wanted to point it out. Sometimes we miss the forest for the trees, as the too-much-used saying goes.

Good luck in any case, I feel for you.

Welcome back to site and glad that you posted.
I feel so inadaquate to reply to this as you have so many issues. But let me say that I am so glad you have brought this here as you will get reponses of good advise and support.
Regarding doc? Is your mother on HMO? should be the only reason he has issue with referring her out.
Has your attorney not suggested haveing her placed for an involuntary mental evaluation?
I knew a man that came from family with same type of issues in early life and is not easy to deal with.
All i can say is so sorry and may the support that you receive here help on your path in this dreadful situation.
At least you have family support on problem and that is a positive!
Please share again as this is interesting history and resolution seems difficult.
May God be with you and your family as you continue on a path with a few bolders and stones.
Hugs to you and your family.
Sheryl

As I read other's stories I can't help but wonder how I would handle the situation. It's pretty easy to say, "I'd do this or I'd do that." But sometimes brain-storming on the outside does produce some clarity that you might not get trying to sort a problem from the inside. FWIW, this is what I was thinking:
First of all you have two problems: a mentally ill mom and an incompetent physician. I'm not sure you should be depending on your mom's attorney because that seems like a conflict to me but if he is on board with what needs to be done then he might be the best person from the legal side.

You do have some positive things going for you, even if it doesn't seem like it from where you stand. You have other family members who can clearly see your mom is ill and needs help. They are willing to help with an intervention. Have you considered drafting a letter of intent addressed to your mom. Based on your description she isn't going to "get" it, but it could put her on notice that she is out of control and others are in agreement. Plus it would give you a document. Your family should all be in agreement about what the letter says and they should be willing to sign it.

The letter basically would outline her behaviors and her condition and render the ultimatum that if she does not agree to being evaluated she will be left on her own, without aid or further communication from anyone. This letter should be signed by everyone who is willing, and your aunts and uncles should be willing because your mom is their relative too, making them as responsible as you are. It should be copied to everyone including her physician and her attorney.

Just brain-storming here. Sometimes difficult situations have to be met with innovative if desperate measures.

Your Mom's doctor is a quack. She needs another doctor. Everyone knows that anacdotal evidence is very important as an evaluation tool for everything from a kid with ADD to Alzheimers and lots of stuff in between. You have done a good job with documatation. I'm glad the lawyer is finally on baord with this. He's starting to see what you have been seeing all along.

You might have to seek guardianship and/or involuntary hospitalization for her.

She sounds a lot like my parents were with the exception that everyone in our town they dealt with could see that they were both getting too confused to live alone, and their PCP was more than willing to help me out, even though I didn't yet have POA for them.

Keep fighting. It should not be this hard to get help for a member of your family. I realize that safeguards have to be in place to protect someone from being committed for no good reason, but you have a good reason.

I do appreciate the kind words and advice. It's comforting. Let me answer a few of the questions:
1. The court system is about the only avenue left to us. The DPOA was done in 2000 but UNTIL we have a Dr who can declare her incompetent in writing, Mom can revoke the DPOA. My sister has not had the experience I've had with AD sufferers since my roommate has 1 sister in an NH and another who will probably be within a year. Sis wants a "slam dunk" because we've already been told the cost will exceed $8K for court and she thinks if Mom can fool her Dr then she can fool a Neuro. I've told her there's no way she can get by the Neuro and in my opinion Mom's Dr is not being fooled either.
2. Mom refuses to go to another Dr. Her paranoia is so bad she would not get in the car with us. Our family is not close so the nicey, nice by inviting to lunch would only arouse suspicion.
3. She's still driving and has guns in the house. We have her on tape threatening to kill me last year. I tried to get Sis to let me file a complaint but she was afraid to go that route at the time.
4. IF we go the court route, Mom's attorney will have to make a decision if he wants to represent her or us. I believe based on what he's now actually witnessed, he will go with us because he knows it's the right thing to do. A guardian ad litem would be appointed for Mom in that case. I'm waiting for him to call me back after conferring with Dr and judge. He's going to make sure the Dr understands that he is the one who created Mom's legal papers and how long he's known her and that we have been working with him not against him!!

I also want all of you to know about another situation. My roommate's sister is a legal resident of another state. However, she spends most of her time here. About 3 yrs ago she gave POA to one daughter and also gave her access to her bank account. She told us her daughter was borrowing $$$ but "she would ask first and always pay it back". We didn't think so and it got to the point that she'd be out of $$$ by the middle of the month. I asked her to let me set it up online where I could check her balance so she wouldn't be paying ATM fees for a balance check and she agreed. I discovered her daughter has been taking about half of her money every month. Without directly confronting her, I gave her several opportunities to stop to no avail. Finally I filed a report via phone with Adult Protective Services in her state of legal residence. I also talked with the local APS and they stated they would work with the other state to get interviews, etc as needed. I sent along with the report 1.5 years worth of bank transactions showing the thefts. Haven't heard anything yet but you know how gov works slowwwwwly! Before you ask.....Family here was in full agreement on filing but I'm the "smart one" who can do all this paperwork. APS has already told me it was the right thing to do! If you have LOs being exploited by another family member(or outsider), don't hesitate to at a minimum ask the bank to report odd activity to local APS and let them investigate.

Find a "Nuerologist",,make an appointment,,and take your Mother in to be tested. Then ask the nuero if he can refer a good "geriatric primary Dr" for your Mother.

Also,,you can and should've applied for "Legal guardianship" of your Mother,,and requested that the court appoint a nuerological exam to be done on your Mother.

I guess I'm not understanding why you've waited around for so long for any type of help from the Dr of your Mom,,that you dislike so much,,,you really don't need him for a thing,,there's alot of better qualified Drs out there,,and you don't need this Drs permission to find one. Peace

In reply to Raven, I'll try to explain.
1. How am I supposed to get my Mom into a car to take her somewhere she doesn't want to go. Kidnapping is illegal and she also has GUNS in the house and has used them before! Trying to tell her you're taking her to lunch is laughable since it's out of character...remember none of us have ever had a good relationship with her. Right now she thinks all of us have had some involvement in stealing her stuff.
2. At first Dr wouldn't refer her. Now that her paranoia is worse, she refuses to go. She refuses to change Primary doctor too. I put most of the blame for the mess we're in on her doctor.
3. While we(my sister and I) do have DPOA it's virtually worthless UNTIL you have at least one(2 in most states)doctors willing to put in writing that she's incompetent. Up until that point DPOA can be revoked and it's scary to think who may scam her into putting them in charge. We're trying to avoid a bigger mess than we're already in. I'm told that it's a minimum of 60 days to get before a judge and about $8K and I'd think Mom's costs would be the same to fight us. Not to mention her forcibly being taken for evaluation.
Just today I've had a 3rd visit from Law Enforcement where she's filed a complaint accusing me of stealing(all in the last year). Family is now planning an intervention at her attorney's office but I'm also looking into a detention order to force an evaluation. However, I don't think anyone wants their Mom forcibly taken from her home in handcuffs to a hospital. Just pray the intervention works! History is not on the side of a peaceful conclusion.

caregiver01, thanks for sharing.

Your post made me feel less lonely.

You are certianly in my thoughts!

To caregiver01, I read your post and the excellent advice you received from 1/2008: http://alzheimers.infopop.cc/e...441032672#8441032672.

From your own words it appears that by now your mother needs to be seen in a geriatric psychiatric hospital for emergency evaluation.

Your local professionals don't seem to be experienced in dealing with dementia.

I get the impression from reading your posts that in your efforts to aid your mother that you fear you are doing something TO her and not FOR her. Your mother's judgment is not valid. She cannot make her own decisions. She is not responsible. You have to get over this fear before you can find the people who can help you institute the advice you have been given by the caregiver members here.

You need one-on-one attention. The Care Consultants at your local or state Alzheimer's Association can help you. Please call the number at the bottom of this page.

Iris L.

quote:

Originally posted by caregiver01:
In reply to Raven, I'll try to explain.
1. How am I supposed to get my Mom into a car to take her somewhere she doesn't want to go. Kidnapping is illegal and she also has GUNS in the house and has used them before!

I'd recommend getting the guns out first. Is there a local gun dealer in your area? I'd visit him privately and explain the situation. (This worked for me.) Then get a friend to visit with you and distract your mother long enough to give you a chance to secure the guns and get them out of the house. Take them to the gun dealer and sell them. You can use the money for your mother's care; you'll need it.

If this doesn't work for some reason, you can also explain the situation to local law enforcement. They're not going to be happy about her having guns either. However, I believe they'll just take the guns and destroy them.

If necessary, of course, you can apply for a Guardianship. Consider asking a lawyer about this.

quote:

Originally posted by Cathy J. M.:

quote:

Originally posted by caregiver01:
In reply to Raven, I'll try to explain.
1. How am I supposed to get my Mom into a car to take her somewhere she doesn't want to go. Kidnapping is illegal and she also has GUNS in the house and has used them before!

I'd recommend getting the guns out first. Is there a local gun dealer in your area? I'd visit him privately and explain the situation. (This worked for me.) Then get a friend to visit with you and distract your mother long enough to give you a chance to secure the gun and get them out of the house. Take them to the gun dealer and sell them. You can use the money for your mother's care; you'll need it.