My MIL passed away a couple of weeks ago, and I am offering this advice based on my experiences the past two weeks:

1. If the funeral is not already prepaid,prepay it. Apparently because they understand that money gets tied up after death, the funeral home has terms of 45 days for payment of their services. However, if you are able to pay immediately there will be a discount (ours was nearly $300).

2. If you are POA, that's lovely. However, try to get your NAME on all bank accounts as "you" not just as "their POA". I sincerely thought that's how I set up MIL's accounts, but have learned that the bank put only MIL's name "on" the account and the others were only there as POA even though all the names were printed on the checks.

3. POA terminates at time of death. This will cause you to be unable to access money or write any checks. In our case, we innocently paid the funeral home, repast and the florist with MIL's checks. Hopefully the checks won't be looked at too closely and will clear without problems.

4. If your names are on the bank account(s) you can go to the bank with simply the Certificate of Death, remove your deceased loved one's name from the account, and proceed to do with the funds what you will. Because husband and SIL were not listed "on" the accounts, we now have to deal with probating a will (I think that's the term). The attorney told us we can do it ourselves and pay a couple hundred dollars, or we can go through his office. Going through him is going to cost approximately $1,000 but to me it's peace of mind that everything will be done kosher, and he will come to the bank w/ us to close out the accounts, etc.

I know that when you're caring for someone, sometimes the last thing you want to think about is "getting their money" after they pass, but it's a fact that you will have to clear up their financial business after they pass, and maybe what I've written will be at least a little helpful.

Also I have seen many discussions here about Medicaid, lookback, etc. May I offer something that I did? When you buy something for yourself or your home that "could" have been for your loved one, keep the receipt and reimburse yourself. I did not do this to an extreme, but here and there I was "expensing" items to MIL and then putting the money away for the future. My logic was that after she had "nothing" and qualified for Medicaid, she would become almost a dependent for husband and myself having to purchase anything "extra" beyond the allowance she would be able to keep from social security checks. It wasn't so much money (only about $500 so far) but I wanted to keep doing that so by the time she was tapped out on paper, she might have a couple of thousand in cash stashed away for her future needs. Just an idea you may wish to use.

Good advice. Get at least five copies of the death certificate, too. Most places just want to see it, but I've had to mail them to insurance companies and SS. Needed it to see the van, too, as it was in both parents names. Title office needed to see the death cert.

Prepaid funeral plans are da bomb. It really helps to take some of the pressure off when the time comes and you can concentrate on making the service special, instead of deciding what casket to buy.

Nina,

Thanks for taking the time to post some very good advice! I think my mother would be proud that I tried to handle her money in a responsible way when she wasn't able to do so. This was a good "head's up" for all of us!

Thank you, Nina, I'm going to check on our checking account. It's just so frustrating to have been meticulous about all of my mother's personal and financial data, paid through-the-nose for her high-priced lawyer, and I'm still learning important pieces of information. I mean, I'm glad I'm learning it and all, but shazam! couldn't the lawyer or banker or someone have mentioned that? Thanks again.

Thank you for this information Nina. Very useful. I'm very glad my mother put me as joint on her accounts. The banks don't even recognize my POA.

Interesting about the buying something for your home that "could" be for your loved one. Don't know that I'm comfortable doing that. I think my sister and I are going to sell some of my mother's jewelry that neither of us want and stash that money away for unforeseen expenses.

I guess we also need to have the talk about funeral expenses and what we plan on doing. It could be a year, it could be ten years, who knows?

Come to think of it, I've been using some of her money for apartment selling expenses, but I don't have receipts. I've been using it for cleaning, some repair stuff (I do have receipts for that), staging (i.e. flowers). Sometimes I just don't think to keep receipts for small stuff.

A little off topic here, but I wonder what car rental counts as. I'm talking about when I have to rent the car to go see her.

Hi, Marj. Just wanted to put your mind at ease -- I wasn't buying furniture or appliances. I meant a few things like a new bedspread, a vase, hand towels... I'd been doing this for a year and a half and only had $500 in receipts thus far.

Great advice, Nina. My credit union explained about the POA ending at death. I had a joint account but thought maybe it should just be in my mom's name.

One warning about prepaid funeral expenses. Some companies have gone bankrupt and the people have lost their prepaid money. Also, if there is any chance you would move that could be a problem. I am waiting until we have to spend the final money for Medicaid. Then I will probably prepay although I think there may be some type of trust you can do. My problem is the cremation will probably be where I live but the burial of the cremains is somewhere else. Makes it complicated.

I had not thought about tucking away a few of her dollars. That sounds like a good plan. I just had to buy some clothes to replace things lost in the laundry and it can really add up.

I'm confused...you start out saying MIL passed...then you say you are tucking money away. I guess for another family member?

You can buy those pre-paid plan where you make payments. If the insured dies before the payments are made, you don't have to pay the rest. Of course, I don't know what the cost is for older folks. Mom and Dad fully paid for their's years ago...when they were late 60/early 70s (don't remember). We used a long established funeral home...I would check with BBB and google company names before signing anything.

The plan to sell jewelry and sock it away makes sense. You may end up needing it for unplanned expenses...like longer private pay if there is no Medicaid bed when you need one. I hope you all agree to use it for Mom when you really do need it...not convince yourself it's OK to just keep it. Who's name do you put it in? If that person has financial troubles, etc...you may find it has been spent.

quote:

Originally posted by Marjk:


A little off topic here, but I wonder what car rental counts as. I'm talking about when I have to rent the car to go see her.

If you are writing checks to a car rental company -- or even a credit card -- and you are going for Medicaid real soon...I would think that is questioned. Especially if the car is being driven from another town, your mom can't drive, etc. We had to send bank statements for several months. They wanted to know where everything went. "Cash" will also raise a red flag, I bet.

My understanding is you will be penalized by that amount. I don't totally understand it.

I agree with Always. I asked our lawyer about plane tickets for my sister to come visit my mom and she said that would probably not be considered a valid expense. It would be considered gifting. I know I do not expense my travel to go visit my mother or do errands with or for her. But then I am POA so I am not allowed to spend any of her money on me for any reason. The lawyer did say if I took her out to eat she could pay for the meals. That seemed ironic to me since ever since I became an adult I have always paid for our meals when I eat out with my mom.

I used her money to pay my gas and hotel bills when I drove out to CA to move her back here but even then I paid for my own meals.

Oh the money for her jewelry is going into a separate account for my mother. I am going to try to sock some of my money in there as well. It will be used for stuff for my mother when the money runs out, but the account will be new and not in her name. It can be used for funeral expenses, extra things for my mother that she might need or want, etc... This is for when she runs out of money. She will still need clothes and toiletries and whatnot. I would rather have money handy to buy her the stuff she needs than have my sister and me have to scramble to buy my mother stuff. I was told that we are not supposed to spend our money on things for her because if the government thinks we can afford her care, she won't get on Medicaid. I find that hard to believe. How can buying her a pair of shoes cause a problem?

When I have to rent a car, it's to go see her. Of course I have been paying it myself, but it's really adding up for me. Luckily I have neighbors who are able to loan me their car on occasion. When I rent a car it costs me about $75.

Here's another question. Since I am joint on her account, why would they question certain expenses? Lately all I have been doing is putting money into her account or writing checks to pay her legitimate bills.

When you go to the state to say you are broke and need Medicaid...they want to know what happened to the money. If it looks like you have taken her money to buy frivelous things...or to fund your own vacation, etc. -- then they can conclude you really don't need the financial assistance.

One more thing, my sister and I trust each other 100% with all of this. We've been very lucky to be on the same page about everything so far regarding my mother's money and her care. We are both equally panicked about all this stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by Always Learning More:
When you go to the state to say you are broke and need Medicaid...they want to know what happened to the money. If it looks like you have taken her money to buy frivelous things...or to fund your own vacation, etc. -- then they can conclude you really don't need the financial assistance.

So it has nothing to do with me buying my mother a pair of shoes with money that comes out of my pocket. I couldn't understand why I can't buy her stuff with my money. Of course we're not talking about high heeled fancy shoes, we're talking about non-slip, non-laced shoes that she NEEDS!!!!

All of her money used so far goes for all of her things. I haven't used any of it for transportation expenses yet, but like I said before, the car rental stuff is adding up. There is absolutely NO public transportation for me to get to where she is.

And the money that goes into her account is also her money, checks that are in her name.

You can spend all of your money buying your mother anything you want. They are going to look at HER accounts, and her money -- not yours.


I've never heard that spending your own money would raise a red flag. A parent's finances are independent of a grown child.

Of course if it is a JOINT account...that's another story.

I had my mother's name on my account...since I was a young adult...in case someone ever needed to write a check for me. Her social security number was not connected to the account, just her name as a signature. To avoid any problems, I closed that account and opened a new one with just my name on it. Didn't want to take any chances -- cause it was all my money.

I had a feeling I got bad advice about me spending my money on my mother.

I love these boards. I learn so much!

Always Learning - I wrote it in the past tense. Yes, MIL did pass away. I wanted to share what I learned about POA and expenses over the past couple weeks. Then I shared the strategy that I used to try to save up some money for MIL's use after she would have spent down her funds and applied for medicaid. I had wanted to have a little nest egg set aside for her needs - once on medicaid, I wanted her to still have $ available for hairdresser, nails, pretty clothes and pajamas... whatever would have made her happy. This was assuming that she would outlive her assets.

quote:

Originally posted by NinaC:
Always Learning - I wrote it in the past tense. Yes, MIL did pass away. I wanted to share what I learned about POA and expenses over the past couple weeks. Then I shared the strategy that I used to try to save up some money for MIL's use after she would have spent down her funds and applied for medicaid. I had wanted to have a little nest egg set aside for her needs - once on medicaid, I wanted her to still have $ available for hairdresser, nails, pretty clothes and pajamas... whatever would have made her happy. This was assuming that she would outlive her assets.

And I Nina really appreciate the advice you gave. It really got me thinking.

Nina,

You're really on the ball with your great information. I have POA and do remember being told that upon death the POA terminates. I'll have to get on the ball and add my name to all her accounts.

We learn from each other and just another reason for being active on these boards!!

Thanks again~
Jazz

Thanks Nina for your pearls of wisdom.

Thanks Nina for the good advice!

One caution to all who are considering having a joint account with your LO. If they need to go on Medicaid, they will look at that account and may decide that the entire balance is hers, not yours. That could be a big problem!

On the other hand, if you are on the accounts with her, you probably have right of survivorship and all the money in the accounts will be yours if she passes away before she needs medicaid.
K

Our elder law expert attorney wrote an "In-Advance" contract for me so that I am paid a salary for caring for my mother. Supposedly (hopefully) this agreement will prevent Medicaid from attempting to recapture the money Mom paid me for caring for her. We shall see.