I have a question that arose as a result of a response to my "Falling out of wheelchair" thread.

My mom lives with me and my SO (if you want to know all the circumstances, it's all in the other thread).

I got to wondering... what would happen if we both suddenly died in a car accident or somthing?

If something happened to me, my SO would continue with her care unquestionably. If something happened to my SO, my mother would need to be placed in a facility as I cannot care for her myself.

I'm not talking about illness or injury which could be worked around, I mean sudden death.

I have a wonderful support network of doctors, aides, neighbors, etc... but nobody to really step up to the plate if the unthinkable happens.

I have no family except for a disinterested daughter in another state, so I can't count on her. I have no other family.

My SO's family is all out of state as well, and I would NEVER expect them to step in (they're pretty much busy doing their own caregiver things).

So... what happens?

I'd imagine the police would be involved and call some type of Adult Protective Services?

Who would handle the estate (only the house, really, and my business that would obviously cease operations).

What would happen to my mother?

Anybody know?

I don't know, but I am would like to know the answer as well. I have no significant other or children. This is on my mind constantly about what will happen to me. I guess I need to find that husband and wonderful stepchildren.

I wonder if there's a social worker in your area who specializes in eldercare issues? My fantasy (as I'm afraid it's only fantasy) is that we could discuss current and future scenarios with such an expert, and then if something drastic happened, she'd be in a position to help distant family members cope.

For example, in your case, Keeping Her Home, you could let your mom's out of state family members know to contact the social worker if anything happened to you or your SO. And if something happened to your SO and you couldn't cope with mom alone, the social worker could step in to advise you and help you with a placement.

I know there are people who do this kind of work for a fee. Now I'm thinking it might be worth looking into it just as a kind of backup in case Plan A falls apart completely.

Actually, Cathy has a great idea. Also an elder care attorney can help to set up a trust or a fund with a guardian (if something should happen to the family) to take care of this situation. We had to do something like this for my nephew in my will in case something happens to my sister and my nephew gets all of my assets and he's still a minor. We had to name a guardian to take control of the money and the care until he turns a certain age. I'm sure that is an option for your mom as well. You can choose a bank, a person, whomever.

quote:

I got to wondering... what would happen if we both suddenly died in a car accident or somthing?

I'm not talking about illness or injury which could be worked around, I mean sudden death.

I have a wonderful support network of doctors, aides, neighbors, etc... but nobody to really step up to the plate if the unthinkable happens.

So... what happens?

What would happen to my mother?

Anybody know?

I joined MedicAlert® Safe Return® and opted for their Caregivers coverage. MY LO has bracelet and I have bracelet indicating I am caregiver.

MedicAlert® Safe Return® conducts a phone interview collecting a database of information. If something happens the have a list names and agencies to be contacted.


I spent a month selecting and arranging with people to be listed. They take a medical and prescription profile. They have notes on how to access our house, the dog's name,etc. We have a elder service agency listed, church contacts,out of state family.It is a lot of work.

As one our support group members wrote the last thing you want is the fire department axing down your door.

The SafeReturn program has an excellent response program for a wandering LO.

MedicAlert® + Alzheimer’s Association Safe Return®
http://www.alz.org/safetycente...alert_safereturn.asp

is a 24-hour nationwide emergency response service for individuals with Alzheimer’s or a related dementia who wander or have a medical emergency. We provide 24-hour, nationwide assistance, no matter when or where the person is reported missing.

Enrollment in the MedicAlert + Safe Return program includes:

* Individualized emblem engraved with MedicAlert + Safe Return’s 24-Hour emergency response number.

* Live 24-hour emergency response service for wandering and medical emergencies

* 24-hour family notification service during wandering incidents and medical emergencies.

* 24-hour relaying of key medical information to emergency responders

* 24-hour care consultation services provided by master's level counselors


--


I suggest
http://retirees-newsbasket.blogspot.com/
for relevant information

Consulting an eldercare attorney is a good start. We have a "special needs" trust for my disabled adult son. As part of the trust, I have written a directive as to what I want to happen to my son when I die. It is very comprehensive and details how I would like the trust fund allocated to him by the executors of the trust. I also have listed several people to look after his affairs, that way if one of them isn't able to, one of the others will, I hope. Perhaps you could have the attorney help you draw up some papers to reflect your wishes for you LO's future care.

When I converted my mother's trust, I added a friend as Successor Trustee, because I don't trust my brother who lives in another country. He would stick my mother in a nursing home and leave the country. That isn't acceptable.
In the event of my death, my friend would manage the care that my mother needs, according to the trust, including placement in a nursing home if necessary. The difference is that she would be my mother's advocate.
If she cannot or doesn't want to be trustee, it will be passed to my brother, and if he rejects, then the lawyer will serve as trustee.
The trustee is paid income from the trust.

If you don't assign someone and no one comes forward, the state will asign a person and they will be paid from the estate.

It is also advisable to arrange and pre-pay all of your funerals and cemetary costs.

I had cancer 2 yrs ago and had to spend down my assets to get government assistance for medical. Two days before surgery, I arranged and paid for my surgery, because you can put it into an irrevocable trust.
I didn't feel that I was going to die. But when I do and if my mom is alive she is incapable of doing anything.
She's 40 yrs older then me and in better physical health.

I'm really glad I started this thread!

When my mother was released from rehab last year (what a NIGHTMARE that was) I was assigned a geriatric care manager as part of the exit process.

I'm going to see if such a service is available, but it might be a fantasy as Cathy suggested.

About a guardian - the thing is I have NOBODY who I would expect to act in such a role.

DLMifm - what an EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT idea about the caregiver's bracelet! I'm getting one ASAP as soon as I work out what contact info to put on it.

Thankfully I don't have to worry about the Safe Return program as she cannot wander. I used to have Life Alert but she is no longer able to push the button for help so I cancelled it.

I'm researching to see if there is any agency that will do what Safe Return program does (database of info, etc...) without the monitoring fees but I can't seem to find one.

Would you happen to have a breakdown of the info you provided them so I could create my own?

I do have a friend that can be contacted who will see to her immediate needs in case of an emergency, and follow through on whatever I want, but I do not expect her to (nor should she) take responsibility for her by being assigned as trustee.

I will let her know what agencies need to be contacted to have the state assign a trustee. The estate that would be left would only be equity in the house, not a huge sum of $$$.

I'm thinking that the $$$ involved would be better served without an attorney being a middle man.

Am I correct in assuming the proceeds of the sale of the house would go towards her care?

About the funeral and cemetary costs - my mother and I have both made arrangements to donate our bodies to medical research. If, for some reason, they cannot accept our bodies (they have criteria that must be met) depending on who dies first, I'll just end up as an unclaimed body.

Ugh... my head is spinning!

Hi,
Whose name is your house in? If it is in yours, if you have not made a will to specify the proceeds to got to your mom's care, I think maybe your daughter would be your heir.
She would probably be the go to person for your mom's care also if she is the only living relative. If she declined then would she be the responsibility of the state?
Off topic a little, but I have wondered about the people who say they cannot care for a family member but cannot find a NH who will take them. Would the family member be charged with neglect if the care was not up to the 'states' standards. If the state will not help and the funds are not there what can someone do?

States must have provisions for the elderly who have no family. I know it is difficult to get someone in a NH without being private pay but surely they are cared for somehow. Remember the woman on the news recently who had been in a state mental hospital because she had dementia and no one knew who she was.

Got to go now. This is a great thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Keeping her home:
I'm really glad I started this thread!

When my mother was released from rehab last year (what a NIGHTMARE that was) I was assigned a geriatric care manager as part of the exit process.

I'm going to see if such a service is available, but it might be a fantasy as Cathy suggested.

About a guardian - the thing is I have NOBODY who I would expect to act in such a role.

DLMifm - what an EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT idea about the caregiver's bracelet! I'm getting one ASAP as soon as I work out what contact info to put on it.

I'm researching to see if there is any agency that will do what Safe Return program does (database of info, etc...) without the monitoring fees but I can't seem to find one.

They MedicAlert displays their phone number on the bracelet. Then they maintain the data for you (by phone). They (so far as I know) don't offer monitoring services. The bracelet has key med information of the CAREGIVER.

Keeping any database updated is a PIA.

Regarding guardian, you may find if not easy. Your elder attorney can be named guardian and will generate fee for services costs. Suggestion: call your local ALZ association they are wonderful at counseling and helping with just about any issue related to AD care.

The key issue as I see it is the need for immediate substitute for the caregiver until your other plans are implemented.

I'm planning to have caregiver bak-up steps and where to find information printed out on an adhesive label and then stuck on a magnetic card {to be placed on the refrigerator door}.

Safe return provides a 5"x7" mag-card for the refrigerator door with steps/process to follow if AD is missing...

DLMifm - I guess I misunderstood about the MedicAlert. I'm going to check it out again. Thanks!

I'm also going to follow up on the mag-card for the refrigerator.

I already have my cell phone number on several walls and doors in her apartment, as well as a list of meds that she takes. I really have to expand on the info I have here.

And I will cal my local Alz. association. Jeez! You'd think I would have thought of that already!

Frog - we (my mom and I) own the house together with rights of survivorship. My daughter will have absolutely nothing at all to do with her care. Sad, but honestly, my mom was so mean to her I can't say that I blame her (and she also has her own issues).

About your question regarding not being able to care for a family member and can't find a nursing home - I'm not sure how it works, but one of my mom's aides told me about a neglected LO living with a family member. APS was called, and the family member now has aides visiting. I have no idea who pays for it, maybe the state?

As an aside, family members who have the ability to help with elder care expenses but refuse, here's some interesting reading.

http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourw...d_parents_care_.html

quote:

Originally posted by CleveR:
Consulting an eldercare attorney is a good start. We have a "special needs" trust for my disabled adult son. As part of the trust, I have written a directive as to what I want to happen to my son when I die. It is very comprehensive and details how I would like the trust fund allocated to him by the executors of the trust. I also have listed several people to look after his affairs, that way if one of them isn't able to, one of the others will, I hope. Perhaps you could have the attorney help you draw up some papers to reflect your wishes for you LO's future care.

I go back to the days when we setup trust for our family. Outlined what would happen to our daughter if my DH or I were dead or incompacitated and unable to take care of child. Would we be looking at the same type of setup for a parent???? In our case we designated a "family friend" to take care of ou daughter. This was all written in "legal documents".

My advice, see an elder care attorney and have it all legal and in writing.

Best to you....

quote:

Originally posted by jazzy1:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CleveR:
This was all written in "legal documents".

My advice, see an elder care attorney and have it all legal and in writing.

Best to you....

IMHO "legal and written" things work best if anyone named in the document(s) for carrying out your wished were involved and have discussed things with you.

We have a family situation where 87 year old woman has drawn up end of life documents (will,etc) as well as a DOPA which name a nephew but she has never asked him if it OK or discussed anything with him.

Not only should you work with an elder care attorney to "put it in writing" also take the time to discuss with the attorney what may be encountered when those named in the documents say no.

Banks also provide "guardianship of trust" services. I'm sure there is a fee from the estate. There's usually a department in the bank for this. I don't know that all banks do this and I'm not sure how to go about setting it up, but my attorney brought this up to me.

The reason why I found it so important to do my will now is because if something happens to me then my estate goes to my mother, (therefore going to pay for all of her care and if she does end up on government assistance at some point, then blah blah blah - you all know where I'm going it this). I wanted everything to go to my sister and my nephew. The attorney I used made me spell out EVERYTHING, especially what happens to my estate if something happens to the people I leave everything to, before I die.

This is a really interesting thread. You got me really thinking.