I seem to be having some trouble canceling some accounts for my mother, who was just moved to an assisted living facility. Cable, internet, most credit cards, etc... Anyone have any suggestions?

Do you have POA? I know it's a pain, but I've had to fax or e-mail the POA to institutions to get Mom's name off of things, or to close accts.

Not with everyone, but I had trouble with a very old Sprint cel phone account that my father hadn't used in years anyway. So silly. POA was faxed and they cancelled.

If you don't have that, you should ask what they would accept, I think you might be able to get a doctor to write a letter stating that your mom can no longer use the account.

My Mom never took my Dad off the accounts when he died nearly 20 years ago. I had to send the gas company, electric company and phone company copies of his death certificate to cancel them. Several other accounts were based on his Social Security Number and if I hadn't known that, it would have been very difficult to close them.

Getting the home insurance canceled was the worst, I had to fax the newly recorded deed showing the new owner.

My suggestion -- POA is the best way but still must show "proof" with actual signed POA paperwork.....that takes time. Most times left on fax machine and do you want that personal info in middle of customer service center?

If you know the parent's account information such as: soc sec#, address, etc, you can call in as that parent. I call for my mom all the time as have all her personal information (even though have POA). Now if it were my father I'd need a male person to call as him. Works every time as less time consuming vs. using POA!!! Use POA when have direct contact with person, such as the bank as they can view the POA and take immediate action.

Good luck!

Most of the time I "am" my mom, I have POA so I consider it legal, and know all of her personal data when asked to verify who I am. Until she became ill we really did sound alike.

I do have POA and I am now sending it EVERYWHERE. I've tried to "be her" but I don't know some of her security words so that didn't work. The biggest issue I am coming across is with her credit cards. I guess I can wait on those but I don't want new cards issued to her. I thought making 25 copies of the POA papers was enough. I was wrong!

Since Dad didn't carry a balance on two of the three cards he had I didn't cancel them right away. Mistake! My sister started using them and ran up the bill. There was on card where my dad has signed up for dental discounts and he not Mon had any teeth! I called the credit card folks about taking those charges off and had a hard time with it. I finally stated that I was not going away and that I would talk to whoever I had to talk to to make it clear that my folks had dementia when they purchased this service, that they didn't need, and that I would discuss this case of exploitation of the elderly with whomever they cared for me to discuss it with.

With SS, I just pretended to be Dad over the internet to get his checks direct deposited.

As for the other accounts, once I told whoever that my folks were on Medicaid, suffering from dementia and in a NH, they were no longer responsible for the charges. I didn't mention my sister. It's bad enough between us already.

quote:

Originally posted by Lammie:
Since Dad didn't carry a balance on two of the three cards he had I didn't cancel them right away. Mistake! My sister started using them and ran up the bill. There was on card where my dad has signed up for dental discounts and he not Mon had any teeth! I called the credit card folks about taking those charges off and had a hard time with it. I finally stated that I was not going away and that I would talk to whoever I had to talk to to make it clear that my folks had dementia when they purchased this service, that they didn't need, and that I would discuss this case of exploitation of the elderly with whomever they cared for me to discuss it with.

With SS, I just pretended to be Dad over the internet to get his checks direct deposited.

As for the other accounts, once I told whoever that my folks were on Medicaid, suffering from dementia and in a NH, they were no longer responsible for the charges. I didn't mention my sister. It's bad enough between us already.

WOW! This story is an eye opener. I have all of her credit cards, but it's the new ones that they send out that I am worried about. Luckily most of her income is set up for direct deposit. I just found out today that banks require POA papers to be drawn up a little differently. It's way too late for that. I hope I don't come into trouble with the way her POA papers are now, they have the notary public signature on a separate page.

If you can't get them cancelled, just quit paying them. That should do it!

For direct withdrawals/automatic payments... you may have to change bank accounts as there is a law that the company has to remove the charge..the bank cannot take it off at your word. I know able bodied people who have had trouble with this.

I had an issue I anticipated...so I used a credit card I never use for anything else, I simply canceled the card when the company wanted me to go through hoops to cancel an on-going service I no longer needed. (for me on my credit card)

Yes,I suggest that you have your Mom's social security card right next to the phone,,and to have a woman call and make all the cancellations of all credit cards,,cable,,,utilities,,whatever,,,all the woman has to say is that she is moving into assisted living,,and everything she needs is provided and included in her monthly fee.

This way you won't have to endure the hassle of closing out any accounts,,and the business's will think its your Mom on the phone cancelling. Peace

I've tried to "be her" with the credit card companies, but I don't know her security codes or pin numbers. I just feel like every time I get one thing done, there are ten more things that pop up. I can't keep up with it all.

All you have to tell the credit card companies or anyone else for that matter,,is that you "forgot" the pin number and password. Play it up,,like say ,,,listen,,,I'm an old woman and I can't remember what the hell all that was from years ago,,,now close out this account,,now! Maybe it will work,,,or maybe it wont.

All you can do is try again. And if a company "still " won't close out the account,,then make sure you get all of the mail sent to your address,,and cut all cards up.

You could also ask your Mom if she remembers any of the passwords ect,,if not,,then just cut all cards,,and you should be able to go down to the utility company and show your POA and explain whats going on,,hopefully. Best of luck. Peace

FOr some utility bills, I did have tofax them a copy of the DPOA, and after that all was well.

As for credit cards, I did the same thing and went one step further: In our state, anyone over 65 can place a "credit freeze" on themselves. Mom didn't/won't need credit cards, so I just kind of became her for a moment or two, and placed a credit freeze. (I do have full DPOA, so have the right to do this).

It also helps protect her from identity theft, which in today's world can be easily done by those who prey on the elderly.

It's a constant struggle. My MIL's credit card company refuses to accept the POA until they get her verbal permission to accept it. (That's what the POA is for!!) And asking her at this point, she will absolutely tell them "no way" because she doesn't remember setting up the POA. And her cell phone company won't accept the POA because it is not on the lawyer's letterhead. Lawyer says these companies look for reasons not to accept them. They're afraid you are going to use and abuse the accounts.

I too have had to deal with this issue. Many mentioned are what I have found to work. Pretending to be your parent if you are the same gender doesnt seem to be a problem. All you need is SS#,sometimes DL# but most important I have found is having their credit card in your hand because you have the 3/4 digit code on the back, plus your parent doesnt have the card to use. I know it is regarded as ID theft, but if you dont get control of their ability to incurr debt you will go crazy dealing with all the vultures out there.

There are high-pitched men and low voiced women...so if someone questions your identity, just act offended. As long as you have the proper numbers...social security, etc. you should be able to cancel these accounts. Otherwise, quit using them and quit paying if you get a bill (phone or cable.) Write "closed account - return to sender" on the bills if you have to.

In this economy, lots of bills are going unpaid.

I set up all my mom's accounts on-line, using her information, so that I could monitor everything (utitilies, banks, brokerage accounts, etc).
Again, I didn't have any problem closing accounts when I provided the DPOA and a letter of incapacitation from her doctor. I also gently and firmly explained that my mom was in the advanced stages of Alzheimer's, had no clue whatsoever how to pay bills or even how to use the remote any longer. I even let them know she no longer knew how to take a shower. Sometimes you have to paint the picture for them.

Marjk, have you tried cutting up the credit cards and sending the pieces, registered mail, to the CC company with a letter from "her" telling them to cancel the account?

I actually spoke to someone in her bank about what to do (just asking for advice). I was told that a letter of incapacitation from her doctor along with the DPOA papers should do the trick. She also told me to set up as many of her accounts online so I can cancel them that way. Anything but financial or banking things I have luckily had much less problem with than I expected. It's those credit cards and her annuities and IRA's. All I'm trying to do is give them the DPOA but because it wasn't given to them within the first six months of them being drawn up, I am having trouble. The letter from her doctor should hopefully do the trick. Not sure though if that will work with her credit cards. Thanks guys for all your advice.

Hi:
Not sure what you are trying to do with the annuities and IRA. You could just sign up to have them directly deposited into her checking account (joint with you?). You can probably do that online, once you set up the online account. I did that with all of mom's stuff. Fortunately, her SS was already on automatic deposit. That's one thing I didn't want to have to deal with.

quote:

Originally posted by flowerbuyer:
Hi:
Not sure what you are trying to do with the annuities and IRA. You could just sign up to have them directly deposited into her checking account (joint with you?). You can probably do that online, once you set up the online account. I did that with all of mom's stuff. Fortunately, her SS was already on automatic deposit. That's one thing I didn't want to have to deal with.

All I'm trying to do with her annuities and IRA's is set up that I am DPOA for the day if and when we need access to the money for her care. I learned that scrambling at the last minute to get things done is really an added stress. Canceling her credit cards so that no one can get access to them is also what I'm trying to do. I don't want new cards mailed out, I want the accounts closed. Since she is no longer living at home, I have been trying to cancel all monthly accounts so we are not paying for them anymore. I feel like I am always stressing about running out of money to take care of her. I'm trying to save wherever I can.

Marjk

ah yes, the six month rule. Many of the financial companies require that POAS be less than six months old in order to request required payments or sale of an instrument.

I had to refuse to leave moms Wachovia agents office unless he resolved the issues. IRAs have mandatory payouts which you must request yearly. If the payments are not made you are hit with large penalties. It took three calls to headquarters before I got access to the accounts. I transferred them to another broker two months later because I was so angry.

Go to the office with your POA, explain that your LO cannot sign anything and since you have activated the POA that anything your LO signs is null and void. It worked for me.

I never knew about the six month rule, but I've been spreading the word to as many people as I can. Financial institutions also use "different language" than attorney's do, which just boggles my mind. We now have a buyer who's very interested in buying my mother's apartment, which is relaxing me a bit about money. Of course I have to get the DPOA papers to the office of deeds now. I am terrified that they won't accept them either. Then I need to meet with a trustworthy financial planner (thankfully I have one) who can set up safe accounts in my mother's name or tell me how I can do it so the money is used for her and her alone. I hear so much about people stealing their LO's money. I really doubt anyone in my family would do that, but one never knows. It truly amazes me what is considered "too much money" to get help. Because of her long term care insurance (which I am thrilled about) and her SS and small pension, she will never qualify for Medicaid. I've met with two attorneys and her financial planner about this. It's amazing what this fear of running out of money is doing to me.

Find yourself a good elderlaw or trust attorney. Another thought is that you may be able to set up a living trust for your mom, with you as trustee, if your DPOA states you can do this. If you do set up a living trust,you can also specify successor trustess who can take over if something should happen to you.

This type of trust is a revocable living trust, so any taxes would be paid by your mom as an individual, not by the trust. You, the trustee, then manage the trust assets for your mom, to be used for her care. If the trust is worded properly, it can only be revoked by your mother in writing, and that probably can't happen if she's not of sound mind.

It takes a lot of patience and time to transfer the assets into the trust once the trust documents are complete. Each entity (bank, crdit union, brokerage, etc) has different language and rules. But it can be done, with patience and a lot of paperwork.

This is one way, if the attorney says it's possible, to protect your mom's assets for her use.

I've never heard of the "six month rule". If the DPOA is drafted properly, it should be accepted. In some cases, I have had to also get a physician's letter of incapacity as well as the DPOA. I did file the DPOA with the county recorder, and have it "certified" (this was necessary in order to sell my mom's house).

Good luck. I know the fear of running out of money.

quote:

I had to refuse to leave moms Wachovia agents office unless he resolved the issues.

Marty, I do like your style!

quote:

I was told that a letter of incapacitation from her doctor along with the DPOA papers should do the trick. She also told me to set up as many of her accounts online so I can cancel them that way. Anything but financial or banking things I have luckily had much less problem with than I expected. It's those credit cards and her annuities and IRA's.

The banks -- including the credit cards -- can be a flaming pain in the keester. They'll ignore your DPOA, even if it's perfectly valid. They'll make you jump through all sorts of hoops and then tell you it's not enough. If you get started down the DPOA/letter from the doctor route, then they'll be alerted to what's going on. If you send in the chopped-up cards purportedly from your mom, you avoid the hassle.

You would not believe what I went through trying to cancel cards and accounts for my DEAD father! DPOA, will naming me executor, death certificate, nothing was good enough for some of these yahoos.

And may I add that Verizon was one of the worst.

Luckily I already set up her Verizon account online. I haven't canceled it yet because my sister will be staying in my mother's apartment quite often this summer to help clean it out and also my aunt and uncle will be coming for two weeks in September to finish cleaning it out.

I was told by Citibank and by Chase (so I have to assume most banks are the same, although those are her two banks) that the DPOA needs to be current, within six months. It's best to give them to the banks when they are drawn up so they can put them on file in their system. It would have saved me a lot of hassle if I had known this then, rather than now.

My problem with time and patience is that I don't think I have a lot of time left. If that's really the case then I don't have to worry about money. I have a very interested buyer for her apartment so that money should carry us over for the rest of her care. I honestly thought I would have years left with her, but I know now that's not the case.

The Only Free Credit Report

12yrs after my dad died, I went into the three credit reporting companies, through the above link. I had his SS# and knew other information.
All three of the accounts were active. So I call them one by one. One apologized and closed/archived it. The other insisted that I send a Death Certificate. I told him flat out NO and I explained that in their notes on his report, they stated that Social Security had notified them of his death 12 yrs ago.
Talk about stupid, they received the information from Social Security and just noted it, but did not know what or how to process the information.

I had to call Medicare on numerous occasions about my mother. She stopped payment on her prescription plan and I can't get her back on one until open enrollment and she won't be back on a plan until January 1st. I keep calling hoping to get someone who will be a little more understanding and help me out. Well, the Medicare rules are LAW but I did end up with one woman who was so understanding because she is dealing with an LO with AD as well. She couldn't help me get my mother on a plan, but she did tell me about certain pharmacies that can help out with prescriptions (i.e. Walmart and $4 prescriptions). When you deal with people who just have no idea what you are going through, they can be so heartless and stupid!

Marj-
I'm so sorry that you may not have a lot of time left. This disease is just do darned evil.

quote:

I was told by Citibank and by Chase (so I have to assume most banks are the same, although those are her two banks) that the DPOA needs to be current, within six months. It's best to give them to the banks when they are drawn up so they can put them on file in their system. It would have saved me a lot of hassle if I had known this then, rather than now.

Just a little vent here. In the real world, most designated attorneys-in-fact aren't given the DPOA until it's needed. My mom gave me her DPOA on the advice of her CPA. Mom had her attorney draft the DPOA 4 years earlier. DPOA's are generally not given to the AIF until there is a reason, namely the principal is, in some way, incapacitated.

So forgive my bluntness, and forgive me for venting on your thread, but I think that six-month "rule" is something concocted by banks as a CYA. WaMu gave me nothing but grief a few years ago, and I finally called our state Attorney General's office, who contacted WaMu's legal department. Long story, they accepted the DPOA, with an apology that they were wrong in not accepting it.

Flowerbuyer,

Thank you for your vent. I just can't imagine why financial institutions feel they have the right to make their own rules on such matters. If the DPOA is accepted everywhere else as a legal document, why won't they accept them? The hassle and the stress of what they are putting people through is disgusting.

Eleven years ago my mother had DPOA papers drawn up. A couple of years ago, when I realized how bad she was getting, I tried to find them but to no avail. I searched everywhere, including the safe deposit box. I had new ones drawn up while she was still with it enough to understand. Everything was fine. About three months ago while cleaning out her stuff, I found the old DPOA papers. They are EXACTLY THE SAME as the new ones. For some reason, the banks don't like the way the new ones look? Who knows. The original ones are too old for them, etc... Even giving them both legal documents (which are exactly the same but the font size is different so the new ones have more pages and some paragraphs are not on the same page as other paragraphs that they want to be on the same page) is not good enough. They want DPOA papers that were drawn up within the past six months, or they at least have to be less than one year old (that's their way of being nice).

Can you find a bank manager -- not an employee sitting in the lobby -- who can talk to the attorney that drew them up? If that attorney is not available, talk to another one.

Are you trying to pull out a lot of money? Maybe they want to keep the accounts in the bank.